Healing Your Money Story — Emotional Spending, IFS, and Financial Peace

Hello there fearfully and wonderfully made human. It's me Diana from Through the Valley Therapy and Transformed Mind Consulting and Coaching. And you are listening to the Holistic Counselor podcast where I hope faith, psychology, and whole person healing come together. Now, you've probably heard the phrase, "Money is the root of all evil."

But that's not what scripture actually says. 1 Timothy 6:10 tells us, "It is the love of money that is the root of all kinds of evil." And that distinction matters because our relationship with money runs deep. For many of us, it's not just about numbers.

It's about identity, safety, fear, control, and even faith. So today, we're slowing down to explore something I've been personally curious about because when I get curious, I want to learn alongside you. That's why I invited today's guest on the show. Jennifer Shrap is a licensed professional clinical counselor and supervisor with over 20 years of experience.

She's IFS informed, internal family systems informed, bilingual, and a Christian counselor who anti integrates spirituality into her work when her clients desire it. She also co-leads a workshop called finding peace and hope with money, helping people better understand the emotional and spiritual weight of their financial stories.

And while I've never met Jennifer before now, I was drawn to the way she connects emotional healing with how we view and manage money. Something we don't talk enough about in the church, in our families, or even in therapy rooms. I don't know exactly where this conversation will go, but I do know this.

If you've ever felt anxious, stuck, or ashamed around your finances, you are not alone, and this space is for you. So, let's see what comes up. Let's learn together. Thanks, Jennifer, for being on the show.

Diana, thanks for having me.

All right, so let's start with your story. What led you into the world of therapy and what inspired you to focus on money and emotional healing as part of your work? So really what to be honest what led me into the world of therapy was my own lifelong struggle with food addiction and wanting to help other people not have to walk the same painful road that I have walked.

And I'm still I'm still in process. I'm still in process. But I've learned so much along the way and wanting again wanting to help others not have to make the same mistakes that I have made or to take as long as I have taken.

And I want to help other people get the insights that they need so that they can move forward with more victory and peace and self-control, but not a shame based self-control, but a victorious living freedom joyful self-control. So that's really what drove me to want to become a therapist.

And also I I am fascinated by others and and just have a innate desire to get into people's stories and and help them sort things out.

Yeah. I mean and what about the money part? Because this is something money part.

Yeah. Because you do you do this with a a a business coach or I mean

with a Ramsay money coach. Yeah. And actually

tell us about that. And it uh came to my mind as you were doing the intro that I need to update my website because we are we've renamed the program and now it's called heal your money stuff and calm your life.

Oh, really? Heal your money stuff and calm your I like that.

Heal your money stuff and calm your life. Yeah. So, I've teamed up I've teamed up with Brian Johnson, a Ramsay money coach. So he obviously brings the financial and I bring the emotional and we work together to help people become free of the emotional money traps that they have fallen into.

So what got me into that is Diana I I noticed and I'm sure you've seen this too [gasps] as [sighs] we work with clients it's not just depression, anxiety, you know emotional management that they're struggling with. They most likely, if they're sitting on our couch, they most likely are going to have financial stress as well.

Uh they're going to have I'll even go further, they're they're going to have clutter in their homes. They're going to have some physical health issues, uh relational issues. Like it's not just, hey, I need to work on my emotions and then I am good to go.

No, there's going to be other stuff that is not going the best that it could. And so, as I as I've walked alongside people and also in my own journey, noticing how the emotional will jack up anything, including the way that we manage money.

I started to get curious as to what was going on there and went a little deeper and explored the the different parts, you know, according to the internal family systems way of looking at things, the different parts that are involved in money mismanagement and it went from there.

Okay. So, let's talk about two things because some of my listeners are not Christian, number one, and then so they're going to say, "Who is this Ramsay dude?" And number two, some of them have no maybe have never heard of IFS or internal family system.

So I want to kind of touch base on those two things if you don't mind because for me can you explain this the Ramsay thing because people be like Ramsey who?

So Dave Ramsey so he is a money coach out of Nashville, Tennessee. He's been around for decades now and his big thing is get out of debt. Don't go back into debt and build build from there. Build wealth. So get out of debt.

Have a really good emergency fund. Fund big purchases with cash. I mean other than you know your home, but fund things with cash. Uh don't rely on credit cards. Don't use credit cards. And again, you know, build wealth. Leave something for the generations to come.

So he wants people to be free of debt. Like that's that's really his big thing. And then to manage their money well beyond that. And of course, debt has become so normalized in American society that this is a widespread issue and it's an easy trap to fall into because of all the promises and even you know what is it the airline points and you know you get this and and you get the that if you if you start using if you're using credit cards but

yeah I get I get 2% cash back. What do you mean?

I get 2% cash back. Well, how much cash back is that credit card company making off of you?

Oh, hopefully none because I learned I learned hard lessons. Honestly, I learned some hard lessons in life. So,

yeah.

Yeah. But so many people So many people

Well, they don't know, right? Yeah. Jennifer.

Yeah. They don't know.

And this is what I I mean, I actually took the course, so I knew what what you were talking about, right? My husband and I took the course and

and u money. I mean, I'm telling you, like I had to go in there too with my own personal therapist and my business coach because these are things that come up that you don't know. They're in the subconscious, right? And sometimes it is the parts.

So, now we're going to go to IFS a little because it

Now we're going to IFS.

Yeah. The parts of you like that inner child that that new money for me. I could talk personally about my experience with money that you know I was raised by a single immigrant mom and so she worked two or three jobs. I was home alone and I I had a I did not realize that my inner child had such a resentment towards money due to being neglected.

Oo girl, go go go now go with what IFS is.

You can preach on that.

All right. So IFS internal family systems has been around for a few decades now. And it teaches that inside we all have this internal system of emotional parts and emotional wounds. And they all react to each other and they react to what's going on in present day and they react to old experiences and they can get triggered by a variety of things.

Sometimes it's as simple as, hey, you're really tired and now here comes the anxious brain, you know, worrying about this and worrying about that and you're like, I just got to get myself to bed because my brain is not capable of making a whole lot of sense right now.

So sometimes it's that simple. But when there are chronic lack of peace, lack of clear mind issues, there there's stuff inside that needs to be sorted through that needs to be addressed with compassion, with patience. Now, at the core of this system is our true nature.

It is what IFS calls self. And when we are in self, we are free of anxiety. We are free of depression. We are clear-minded. We have hope and we have direction. And we have more creativity and empowerment. And we understand that we don't have to tackle things all at once.

We can take a step at a time. We are more connected to others. were more chill and wellmanaged.

Yes. This lovely state to be in. And what those who developed IFS at that time back in the '9s when they were developing this model, what they didn't realize is that for those who follow Christ, that's who we are in Christ. Like that's us being united

with the Holy Spirit and guided by that spirit. And of course, when we are one with Christ, we're not going to have an anxious brain. We're not going to be overtaken by fear, by shame, by depression, by so many painful painful emotions. So the goal with IFS is to be in self living life out of that state to be able to manage well the emotional stuff that comes uh to deal with the painful wounds that we carry inside

and to move forward with peace and freedom and empowerment. So those that's that's really in a sort of expanded nutshell what IFS is about.

Yeah. And I I use it too. So I'm IFS informed. I'm not certified because

I have to save up the money to get certified in all the different stages,

but it is a wonderful um modality that I use um to help that and CBT, right? Because you challenge the thoughts of and I'm not a money expert by by all means. It's like I know my my road, right?

And so like there's so many that have distorted money beliefs and it is I mean we live in a culture like you know people are like first world we're first world I come from where I come from a I've seen different cultures a lot just because of my mom being from a different culture.

So I saw some she would always tell me like nobody in America knows what poor is.

Nobody, not even the poorest, not even the poorest of the poor know what poor is because and that to me yeah you know but at the same time it's like what I was doing for a living or how my um you know my empathy is like I have empathy so much that I'm just like okay that's fine but you have to understand and she's like I don't need to understand anything like no you work hard you work hard that I love that like I've taken that part of her to be like respectful, right?

But then there's other parts that cause damage and you know like to me like what have you seen? What have you seen and how have you helped people shift their perspective maybe with this program? Because it is hard because it's easy for us to speak about money when someone on the other end is you have no idea.

I don't even know if I'm going to eat tonight. So, how do you like utilize your program or what would be the first things that you would, you know, tell me more about it? Like how do you get together with what was his name?

Brian.

Brian. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like how does someone sign up and what what is it that you first start with like especially the emotional side?

Oh, yeah. So, we put together we we designed this course, this online course

and it I mean people can go out there and and sign up for it and take it, but what we really want to do is personally take people through the material because how many of us have signed up for some type of online course, online seminar, you do it on your own time.

Sounds great. Sounds like a fantastic idea. And then you don't finish it.

Exactly. I I honestly had some CUS that I signed up for and I'm still trying to figure out what do I go back?

Like unless that license renewal is imminent and you're under the gun. The uh yeah, that online course just sits there and you're like, "Wow, that was a waste."

Oh, yeah.

But with this, we want to take small cohorts of women through the material.

Okay.

Yeah. We want to take small cohorts of women like eight people, 10 people max and it would take two months meeting one hour a week.

Mhm.

To get through the course. And what we do is first we want to break down that stigma that accompanies financial struggles. So we want to let people know, hey, if you're here, you're not the worst. You're not a complete failure. Here's why. So we want to start there.

And then we introduce the IFS model of the internal system and how to better understand that. And then we go even deeper and we talk about typical financial money. No, typical emotional money parts

that will interfere and not everybody is going to have the same exact parts, but there are some key players.

Example, sure. Um, one would be the impulsive spender part,

you know, driven by maybe a need to not feel left behind or not miss out. Maybe a little bit of FOMO,

fear of missing out

or, you know, right, you know, somebody has this and I don't want to not have that. I I don't want to, you know, miss out on that. So the impulsive spender part is a key player. Uh there's the anxious spender part. So driven by a fear of what might happen if I don't get this,

if I don't finance this thing. So that's another one. A part that is especially interesting to me is the rebel part, which is not about to be controlled by anything, including a money management program, including a budget. That it doesn't matter that the person holding this rebel part inside is the one coming up with the budget.

It's not like it's a budget that's being imposed. this rebel part is going to be like I will not be controlled by something like that. And of course that is typically going to be based in experiences of [sighs and gasps] of being uh disrespected, overpowered, mistreated.

Jennifer, Jennifer, we got to stop right now because right now my whole system is going, "Holy crap, I am that rebel part.

I am freaking out and I don't even know you girl like no and I just honestly this past Friday I was in a mastermind group with Christian colleagues and there was four of us and we this got brought up the psych they asked me a question and I'm like and we we you know we help each other out in that manner and that's exactly it Jennifer like I I know I've done the work in therapy but

there's still a part of me going no like somebody asked about are you getting sponsors I'm like I don't want a sponsor because then they have their thumb over me

in my [clears throat] podcast. Yeah. See, now you're cracking up. Like, you don't even know me. And now it's it's sort of I'm like, "All right, Lord. What a sense of humor."

I mean, Diana, I have such a rebel part inside. Like, my husband and I will work out a budget

and I've caught myself with this part coming up being like, "Okay, well, this budget is for him."

But, but you if you want to do a little something here, and it's not big stuff, but it's the attitude. I have to check myself and I'm like

what is that? What is this part? This part is is

is reacting to something and no this budget is not just a guideline for him to follow. we're in this together,

right? Or to control because that is the thing because I also work with a lot of women that come out of say um and I hope that's something you guys touch base with where you know if you come from that traditional family where the husband's the the provider and the the woman is the the one that stays home and then they don't have finances, you know, and I've seen abuse happen like big time abuse.

Yes.

Okay. where the it's that's one of if you ever look at the duth model wheel you know money manage or money control is a way to abuse a person right so that that I think working in this field then coming from where I come from where there was all single women like I really had no men around me honestly growing up it was just a whole bunch of hardworking women that are like girl stop crying there's

nothing to cry about you and then I get a you know either a butt whooping or a verbal thing, but that's it.

The rebel that you're talking about, like how do you manage that in a Christian environment? Because to me, that's important of like, okay, we're trying to,

you know, many people have taken that verses to harm others.

So, like,

like what does the Bible really say about the love of money or wealth? Because you hear I hear both sides like oh no being rich it's the eye of the needle the camel going through the eye of the needle or it's like oh no we're supposed to be so abundant and you know prosperity gospel kind of messaging.

So how do you guys like manage that and balance that?

It all comes down to the heart.

What is the heart about? Is the heart directed toward money or is the heart directed toward the Lord and focused on stewarding the money for kingdom purposes? Stewarding money according to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

So where where is the heart leaning? Is it a love of money or is it a love of God? while yes pursuing making more money but not making more money just to have more money. So it it it comes down to it comes down to the heart issue.

Yeah. No, and I agree. And I think that's not only for money, it's for everything, right? Are you living in the spirit? In the spirit or are you living in the ego? Are you living or you know in humility or in the flesh?

Like it's very

Okay. Sorry. I know that we were talking about the rebel part and you see I I go from rah to to next question.

Maybe it's the flow that it needs to be.

Yeah. So, go ahead and tell me more about like how does the Ramsy get to because you said how how many weeks is the program? You said eight weeks. Like two months.

Our program is eight weeks. Yeah.

And and the women um it's kind of like group therapy then. Sounds like like you have the eight women and you both are there but they do homework in between. I'm taking it.

Are they doing the workbook?

Yeah. You know, I'm not [gasps] a big one to be honest. I'm not a big one on homework because if people if if they want to do things in between sessions, then we can give guidance on that. But um I know that I never did homework in between sessions,

right? Yeah. Many people don't have that time. Yeah. I mean there's some people that want it and they ask for it and other people are like I got no time for that.

Yeah. So yeah, if there's stuff they want to do in between sessions, we'll provide guidance on that. But for the most part, no. It's all done in each session.

Yeah. Okay. I know that many are are like okay if they can't do the session is there any kind of books or resources or what else would you say to someone that's like listening right now like wanting to have more information or like how do you start because you not only work doing this um this program you have individual clients as well. [clears throat]

So so if Yeah. Yeah,

I would say for people who are interested in the heal your money stuff, calm your life, I would recommend that they go on our Facebook page because there are I'll call them um I guess mini webinars that Brian and I have done and the videos are there on the Facebook page.

Okay. So to get into So it's a a private group on Facebook. No, it's um it's a public page and they can just go and find it. Heal your money stuff and calm your life.

Okay. On Facebook and so they can go on there and the videos is they're free and everything.

Yeah. Yeah. Where we talk about different

different ways that emotions and money can clash.

So, let's talk about that. What do you mean?

What do I mean? [sighs and gasps] I mean there is gosh anyway that fear gets involved with managing money because almost every single time it's it boils down to a fear a fear of something. um even even guilt-based financial decisions there will be fear wrapped up in that too but [sighs and gasps] that's that's what I mean

what is what is happening when people feel driven to make unwise money moves what is going on there is what's at play. Let's get curious. Let's get open. Let's be non-judgmental about that. Let's explore it. That's what I mean.

Yeah. Can you give an example maybe of a couple of um different emotions? Because you say fear and like we said before there's like fear of like not having enough or fear of um I mean because there's people out there that have a lot and and I've seen this too, a lot.

They're millionaires, but they have this poor mental like this uh scarcity mentality.

Scarcity mentality

and they hoard and they keep hoarding like they can't let go of things. They

they're they end up just um they don't see that they have a lot. It's like they work, they get it, they put it behind them and they don't see it and then they they're like, "We don't have enough money." And I've seen that before. and then the next thing you know the person passes away and they're like this person was a had $4 million or had checks in between the magazines, you know what I mean?

Or the newspaper piling up in the horde and stuff. Can you kind of talk on that about what that means or the different

Yeah, in those cases gosh I would be so curious as to what is driving that fear. Is it, you know, watching the the parents struggle in childhood that there actually was never enough and so maybe, you know, the the family car is getting repossessed or maybe they're losing their home or there's, you know, only ketchup in the fridge and a box of crackers in the pantry.

Like what are those experiences that are that are driving this fear? Is it wearing raggedy clothes to school and getting made fun of? Like what what is it? And I believe that it can be healed so that people can then see with clear eyes and true discernment.

Mhm. They can see things for what they really are.

Yeah.

And keep reminding themselves,

no, we don't have to live in fear. We don't have to.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's the that's the surrendering, right? The the many humans are caught between the surrender and control.

Yeah.

Right. And so like I'm trusting God versus I'm terrified of falling behind. What would you say to someone feeling pulled in both directions regarding their money? Yes.

Mhm. I would say, you know, I might honestly have them do a checkup with a money coach or an accountant, you know, some professional in the field of managing money,

somebody who could tell them, uh, hey, here's where you are and, you know, you're doing all right.

And then if they can't accept that, if there's still if there's still fear, if there's still uncertainty, I'd want to unpack that with them. Yeah. But yeah, it's very similar to somebody who is having a lot of physical issues and comes to a therapist that that person should be checked by somebody in the medical field, should be evaluated, you know, have tests run, whatever.

And let's say nothing is found. Okay, let's see what emotional stuff could be driving these symptoms because of course it happens all the time. But if there are significant concerns in a certain area of life, it's good to get that checked out by a professional in that area.

Yeah. Um do you see a lot of um people that are are addicted to shopping? Oh, [gasps] [sighs]

because that's a money thing, too. I would say like it is.

And this is why we have a a society that's in so much debt because they believe the programming of the commercials and stuff. I mean, what iPhone are we on now? I don't even know. I don't even know which one I have.

But you see what I mean? It's like, yeah, how do how do we as therapists, because I do have interns that listen and other therapists that listen.

How do we as therapists help our clients if that's one of the areas that need to be working on is how they view money like because I think it's something about self-worth because I know growing up in the inner city right everybody wanted those Nikes I mean there were people fighting and beating each other up to steal each other's Nikes because we and then when as I became educated more and more understanding like oh my goodness these shoes would cost like three bucks to be made in a different country And it's the psychology of that.

It's the psychology of money and understanding your own self-worth. And how do we help someone else? Like especially with that because it could become an addiction. There's QVC. Is it QVC? People like I know of like someone's mother that sits there all day long shopping on QVC and hoarding up the stuff.

That's money. Like I think right

that's money. So, how do you how like what would you say to a clinician or like you know if you were because you're a supervisor like what would how would you train a clinician? I would say

if they have a client who either has admitted to financial issues or spending issues like that or if the clinician suspects

Yeah. both like Okay, maybe Yeah.

Yeah.

Because

yeah, if the client admits to it, you know, first

I would encourage the clinician to make super clear that it's a it's a space, a therapy office is a space and therapy process is a space of zero judgment. Zero judgment. There is always a reason why people do what they do. There's always a reason why people feel what they feel.

Okay? And start the conversation. Hey, tell me more about what you're doing. Uh, tell me what you're feeling when you're doing this shopping or maybe right before you're doing that shopping. What kind of pushes you into it? Let's explore that. Let's see what's going on so that you can reach a place of more peace.

If it is a if it's a client who has not admitted that this is an issue, gosh, I would wonder about administering some kind of questionnaire that would pick up on that. Um maybe in a packet with some other questionnaires so that it's not completely obvious.

So, I would I mean, as a way of helping the client first and foremost to see, oh, wow, I'm answering yes to a lot of these questions. Um, huh, how about that?

Yeah. So, that could be a way of doing it. uh or you know if the counselor client relationship is ready for it. If there's that good solid foundation of of trust and unconditional positive regard all those things then the therapist could say hey you know I've heard you talk about your your spending um do you have concerns about that?

Because if the client has zero concerns about it that's that that can be a bit tricky.

Yeah. or if the client's like, "Yeah, I I know I shouldn't be spending this much on um you know, makeup or clothes or shoes or you know, whatever, but I just [sighs] I don't know how to stop." Then you just dive in.

Yeah. Because what do you think is the reasoning is for some because we can't like unless we're sitting there with them and really because we're humans are so unique and complicated and not complicated. So like the way the Lord made us each our own thumbrint but we're all alike, isn't that like we all have the same color blood?

I mean like right um

I know with my own personal situation with money and what I see in some of my clients too. It is it is something that probably we could speak on why people do drugs or why people become addicted to whatever it is that they become addicted to, right?

is that um the the self-worth of who they are and not understanding who they are in Christ because that goes back to the self in IFS.

So with these different parts that come out like is there ones that you name because I know like I I have a bunch of different ones that I write out

or we all do,

right? I mean so you got the anxious planner, the avoider, the spender. I mean, we've heard this before with with what you do with Brian, right? Is it you utilize Ramsay's program because I together with your own program mixed together or is it just like it's Ramsay in form?

No, we don't even we don't even get there.

Okay. Okay. I'm was wondering Yeah. Because we are dealing with the stuff that will interfere every time

with working a program like Ramsay's program. Okay.

Wow.

Um people could even sign up for his class and go through the whole thing and still like make zero changes because there's all this emotional stuff going on inside.

Oh, good. Jennifer. Okay. Yeah, we need to explain that because to me I'm thinking I took the program and I was with a group of people and so so someone can do the actual program the what's it called for

financial peace university right?

Yes.

Yes. financial peace university at their church or wherever and at the same time they could take your program and that's probably the most honestly people that are listening I've done it on on my own and yeah I got some stuff and I'm kind of like educate myself and read books but for someone that has no idea a young couple or per se or a woman that's been in debt you know so your program actually goes straight into all the emotional stuff that's phenomenal That's phenomenal. [clears throat]

Okay. So, so let's just can we just talk about the because since I know about it a little bit too is the the Dave Ramsey because people that have no idea they're like, "Oh, I can't I'm in debt and you wanted me to pay the $99 to do it or whatever."

Sometimes you sometimes you could get scholarships and stuff. It is beneficial in some parts because I honestly I think what it does it takes the cognitive logical parts of the situation and it does miss the mark I think on the what what you guys are working on honestly because to me when I sat there as a therapist right not everybody in there are therapists there's all people from all walks of life that come in

and I'm sitting there going well what about like the the the inner child that's like having this like all of a sudden you're trying to do your budget which it helps in that. So, what else do you do differently? Because if you're kind of getting the Ramsy like how else do you like is it a curriculum that you guys are setting up or you have

in a way? Yeah. Yeah. It's a curriculum that we have developed. And so it's first it's again working to take away that stigma that's associated with ongoing money management struggles. And then we teach about the emotional system. And then we teach about the specific parts that are key players in emotional money stuff.

And then we the last part of the program is helping people to rewrite their money story so that they can move forward. So we teach them how to work with these parts. Brian works with people to come up with a budget

and then we'll help them to unpack their parts as they do that too because of course that's going to stir stuff up.

Yeah.

Wow. So we we we bring them to a point where they are going to have a a freer a renewed money mindset and they'll be able to move in the directions that they've always wanted to but were disabled from doing so by their parts.

Okay. And how do you I mean do people that come are they both Christian and non-Christian? Do you utilize the word of God in it too or or do you have two separate ones like these if they're just how's this work?

It is all secular.

Okay, that's okay with me. I mean, you know, we want to Okay. And so, but is spirituality ever put in it if they want it or how's that? Um, sometimes sometimes we might bring that in. Yeah, sometimes we might bring that in,

but we wanted to make it a safe space for all. And I know that there are people who would be quite concerned about signing up for a program that identifies as being religious.

Oh, yeah. There's so much religious. We don't we're not even gonna go there because that'll be a whole a different podcast episode. But yeah, with the because that's that's what I was wondering because I I do know coming from where I come from there is that like you got to give your you felt guilt and shame like you know oh but there's the widow's might.

You just have to trust and then you see the the person you know driving a Porsche but no I'm not going to go there. Okay. Sorry, I'm I'm going off in a Oh, Jennifer, she's like

I appreciate the honesty.

Yeah. Anyway Anyway, like I could probably talk to you more and more about your program and money. How can someone um sign Can anybody sign up in throughout the world? I mean like is this something

uh throughout the world? Yeah, throughout the world. Yeah, the next cohorts are going to start in September.

Okay. Okay, this will be coming out in October. So, how often do we do that?

Okay, so the next cohort after that would be in the new year.

Okay,

so that's the and right now I'll share with you that we have we're excited about this. We have applied for a grant to fund many people taking this course going through the cohorts in 2026. So, we've applied for a grant to pay for that and we're waiting to hear back.

So, by the time this rolls out, we may have we may have that answer. And that would just be a wonderful thing because like you said, people who need this material, they're generally not going to be flush with cash,

right? They can't. It's so true, you know, and to me, I think of that single mom or the one that just came out of a abusive relationship and they don't have the finances and they're looking for help, you know, and it's and the money mindset because there are people that have a lot and they just are not um able to understand money and that they just want more and more and more and more.

I'm so sorry. You hear my dog?

Oh, I don't hear anything. Oh, good, good, good. Oh, sorry guys. My dog's barking like crazy right now. I love it. Anyway, is there anything else you would like to share with the audience before we say goodbye? Hey everybody, whatever you're struggling with, it does not mean that you are weak or crazy or the worst or a total whatever that you may be telling yourself.

Okay? There's always a reason. There's always a reason. And it often can be unpacked with much less fanfare, much less drama than it may feel inside.

I love that. That is beautiful, Jennifer. For real. I love that. Um, I will put your website in the show notes and um, obviously like everything about is there you said the Facebook page and then your website too, the one that I found you on.

Yeah, I'll make sure that you have the links for the Facebook page and also the actual Heal Your Money Stuff site.

I love that. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Jennifer. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you for having me. Yeah, this has been great.

All right. All right, audience, listener, beautiful human, remember to trust in the Lord, guard your heart, and renew your mind. Bye. And now for the disclaimer to make sure you understand that you are responsible for you. The content provided on the holistic counselor podcast is for entertainment,formational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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