Untangling the Threads: Insights on Biblical, Christian, and Secular Counseling and Her Personal Story of Overcoming Domestic Violence

well hello there God's Masterpiece welcome to another inspiring episode of the holistic counselor podcast I'm your host Diana from through the valley therapy and I'm thrilled to bring you yet another extraordinary guest who shares our passion for integrative approaches to understanding The Human Experience today we have the privilege of Hosting Dr Kate Johnson a true luminary in the field of mental health and spiritual well-being Dr Johnson is not only an accomplished author speaker and licensed mental

health counselor but also a qualified supervisor consultant and esteemed University professor at Trinity International University with over two decades of experience she has dedicated her career to teaching the art of integrating psychology and theology in best practices for counselors Dr Johnson's academic journey is nothing short of impressive she graduated Suma cumad from Trinity International University with a BA in psychology and an MA in counseling psychology her thirst for knowledge and spiritual growth led her to pursue

a doctor of ministry from Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary completing her Masters in Divinity requirements along the way what sets Dr Johnson apart is her unwe favoring commitment to providing help Hope and healing through her Ministry living in Freedom and empowerment she graciously shares her expertise through seminars resources and counseling addressing not only mental health but also the critical issues surrounding healthy relationships and how Ministries and churches can support those who are suffering drawing from her own

professional and personal experiences with abuse across the lifespan Dr Johnson brings a unique multifaceted perspective to her trauma informed care she specializes in helping individuals heal from abuse using a compassionate approach that combines cognitive behavioral spiritual therapy her powerful testimony serves as a shining example of God's ability to mend even the most broken of lives I had the pleasure of connecting with Dr Johnson through the Christian mental health professionals of Florida networking group which started in

Broward County right yes okay a special shout out to Kayla and Anna for establishing this much needed Community yes last year I had the honor of inviting Dr Johnson to be a panelist for a Stress Management discussion I moderated through my church's newly founded mental Wellness Ministry the event brought together four clinical Christian professionals and if you're interested in watching the insightful discussion I'll be sure to include the YouTube link in the show notes Dr Johnson

thank you so much for joining us today and sh sharing your wisdom with our listeners we're truly blessed to have you thank you so much and I need a copy of that cuz that was great you like that I grabbed a whole bunch of stuff that's what I've been doing for my guest it's like they give me their bio and I'm like I know I can make it sound better really I I need you to write

my material for for sure so Dr Johnson tell us a little bit about um your personal story in terms of what led you to the profession you're in today you know it's uh years in the making right um I grew up in an very abusive home and I suffered a lot of abuse and then course when I was 17 to get out of the house and graduated high school married and the person I married was not

who I thought he was and so it was a very abusive marriage and I did all the Christian things they tell you to do which is better wife be more submissive do all those things to make him happy and of course now I know much better I know that it's not what it's about right but back then I didn't and so it took many years for me to 17 years before I even started to look for

help oh wow you were in the relationship for 17 years actually 19 19 years so I I want to have this understanding more so you grew up in a Christian abusive home not Christian okay so an abusive because there there are such things by the way right as therapist we have seen it you know definitely and so so 17 you left home uh got married and then so you were now a Christian at that time I

actually became a Christian when I was five wow because um long story about um my mother left when I was a year and a half old lived with my father lived with relatives suffered a abuse um sexual abuse and one thing that good Catholic homes did at the time was send their children to Sunday school oh yeah and so I went to Sunday school so you grew up Catholic too well no nobody really practiced it it

was just these little things like okay you got baptized did you do your communion and um I did not because by then I was back living with my dad okay and um but five I heard the verse let the little children come to me and I thought somebody loves children oh my gosh and so I asked Jesus to be my friend and savior and yeah but I wanted nothing to do with God interesting right it's usually

the reverse right um because God was like my father which we know from research right children get their views of God from their parents yes and so my view of God was this mean dictator didn't care like who wants that in their life the cosmic child abuser that's what I hear yeah exactly exactly it's interesting my research for my doctorate was on um women who were experienced abuse as children and their view of God and how

to change that and all of them all of the women in the research project said God was demanding God was dictatorial God was Mercurial God was uncaring I mean because that's what you grow up no I I I I have to work that through with a lot of the uh deconstructors that I have coming in and I and and I'm not a I don't want to say I have an expertise on that it's more of me

disentangling because they want to keep their faith exactly and I think that that is such a a much better word that's also the word I use disentangling yes I love rather than deconstructing because I really do think that's what it is detangling who God is from who religion oh preach it girl yeah no and it's true it's it's okay so back to you so now you're in this relationship now for 19 years for 19 years but

in my 17th year or 18th year no 17th year I actually started at my m Christian College because I was working as the Director of Christian education ation at my church and thought I'll take some courses was taking some courses to get my degree in Christian education and then I had my first psychology course and is that when you realize like wait something's wrong here yes because I was learning about the Bible and I was learning

what God really thought of people right and I thought oh my gosh you mean I'm not made to live in this I'm not made to experience this I can do something different did did you ever have um somebody tell you because I saw this in my own um not with my husband but with others um where it's like you must be submissive no matter what listen I was kicked out of my church when I laugh because

that's what they said do you need to well we counseled with the pastor for a while till I realized you don't do couples counseling in domestic violence situations because it is contraindicated because because one person has all the power and one person does not and therefore anything that is said in therapy gets used against the person when they leave the office yeah they'll get they'll get killed they'll get a beat down and if it's not even

a physical it's the emotional abuse total Financial abuse there's that um the Minnesota Circle model yes but I think it's so much more than that I have my own model really which I use but um the spiritual ual abuse especially in Christian homes is just worse so it's all about being more submissive being a better wife um what did you do to make him angry I heard that so many times oh my word um even to

the point where one time the P some One Pastor because I went to a couple different pastors One Pastor said to me go home and tell him you haven't been the kind of wife he deserves and you're going to try better no man can resist that well me not knowing anything went home did that it was the worst weekend of my life I because now I have just admitted it's all my fault right now I and

you're already feeling that it is your fault like even though you're and it's it's such a oh my God I am so I had no clue honestly people I had no idea like you have gone through so much I mean I knew you did but like wow for thank you for sharing because I know that even my some of my clients listen to this they're going to be like she understands well and what happened was when

I decided I mean I prayed people would say to me have you prayed about this my answer was till my knees were raw right right I prayed about this this isn't something I just made up but God gave me permission to leave and when God gave me permission to leave I had to do it very carefully because my husband hband at the time um tracked my mileage on my car so then I'd have to Bar somebody's

car to go and look for an apartment to move my children into um we did move and right before I was getting ready to move I told my husband that I was leaving and because and and now I know that that's probably not the safest thing to do yeah um but then I didn't know I didn't know anything about it except that I felt like I needed to tell him I was taking the kids I had

three sons at that time wow wow they were 11 n and seven oh my goodness and so I told him and he told the pastor and the pastor called me and said you need to come in and meet with me in the elders and we will tell you God's plan for your marriage what and I said thanks but no thanks God's already told me and I'm good and he said well if you do this you have

to leave the church right keep in mind my husband was an abuser and an alcoholic oh my goodness and a deacon in the church but he was allowed to stay a deacon as long as he didn't file the divorce papers right it crazy and then I saw that too like personally with um a deacon in a church I went not the one I go to now but the one from back and it it was he was

a deacon and I'm laughing because he came up to my husband and said you need to get your wife to be submissive and yeah and he's like I gave her permission to say that to you just kidding around but he he was just but it's true right that is it's like what because my husband respects who I am like my personality I am I have a strong personality he he's just that like but he knows who

he is in God first of all and he knows who he is as a man well and that same way with my husband my husband is so of everything I do my current husband clarify that is a wonderful guy we've been married 20 years now wow and see so so tell me how you got out of it because I think if anyone's listening like what would be the safest way for someone in this kind of situation

because you you love Jesus right think about it you love Jesus and you want to do what's right biblically and I think that that becomes such such an issue for and research shows that women of strong faith stay longer yeah because our faith is so much inrig mixed with our sense of identity right and we don't want to disappoint God no and we don't want to be anti-biblical right but now that I know so much about

what the bible really teaches there is nothing biblical that says you have to stay in an abusive marriage as a matter of fact God God God tells people to flee when they're in danger right and he's not just talking about physical danger yeah right that you're allowed to go and be safe and it is not about submission right we have that concept so totally wrong and I think that that's one of the reasons women stay longer

is because they feel like this is their duty but we always hear Ephesians 5:22 wives submit to your hband right but Ephesians 5:21 says submit one to another yes the word submit isn't even in the Greek in verse 22 wow so you studied the Greek too yes okay I I need you to I need to go into your classes I need I'm serious okay so tell me more about that yeah so what the the Greek word

submit there submit one to another is more of the um concept of deferring okay so I defer to you so for instance my husband now he's better at numbers right I'm like so bad at math okay so he does the bookkeeping he does the finances he writes the checks right I'm much better at other things and so I do what I'm good at he does what he's good at it's complimentary I mean that's what I read

in in English in in the old you know right from the beginning it's like you come together to be a team right and and that's such a great Point complimentary in the fact that we complement each other not in the theological concept of complementarianism which is a whole another discussion okay where man is the head and woman is subservient to man that's not what that means at all okay what it means is we defer to each

other with our gifting because when God made Eve or Adam he called her an ezar kigo which means equal yet helper really because in other places in scripture God those words are used of god wow and so God is not less than right God does not submit to right there's an equal partnership there and that's the way God intended it okay so when we look at leaving first we have to settle in our mind I think

that it is okay to leave yeah and then once you make that decision to leave you do it safely and that means is it safe to let the other person know or if not which you normally it's not normally like now that I know what I know I probably never would have told my husband yeah at the time that I was leaving because my life had been threatened so many times right um and it's such a

weird concept to say that Hurricane Andrew saved my life because it was right before Hurricane Andrew happened wow and my kids and I moved to Homestead and so got wiped out in Hurricane Andrew but it kept my ex-husband very busy okay yeah so so many people were around that in many ways I I say yeah pretty much it kept him busy enough not to come after me right and so that was a good thing but think

about whether a restraining order is beneficial or not sometimes they are right especially if you have children and there's been physical violence unfortunately the law doesn't um recognize emotional abuse what it right right and and that's the thing too because listen I I've seen women go through some stuff okay but I I also have seen it's a hard place like as therapists because you want people to be safe yes right and and in your case like

you got out you were especially in a church Christian environment wanting to disentangle your faith and understand and you learned you realized what would be a resource that a person listening to this right now can go to or how how do you is there anything that you utilize or that you've created or that thank you that's a good part of what our ministry does right which is help we have um I actually have two websites one

is for the uh living and freedom and empowerment and the other one is cca.org work and that is Christian Coalition against domestic abuse there's more information there on um signs to look for safety planning those kind of things okay great I will link all that to the show notes okay wonderful and so that was developed due to your own personal experience yes and what happened was after I graduated so okay I go back I'm in school

I take my first psychology course and then I realized this is where God has called me because when I was looking for help I couldn't find Christian therapists oh wow and the Christian therapist that I did find would not give me a reduced rate I was a single mom with three kids struggling still in college working part-time and I had no money for therapy and the only therapist that I found that would give me a redo

straight was a Jewish woman oh and I thought I will never let this happen to somebody else wow and so that was a big impetus for me going into this field in the first place okay that makes sense and and now now you have a whole entire Ministry it's like how God uses us each one of us all of us we all have a story if we submit ourselves complet okay I use the word submit but

in a good way guys yes yeah because so for real like I just did an episode on women like encouraging women and everything and I talked about like the Proverbs 31 Woman when I first became a I became a Christian at 29 so I came from Catholicism and sanaria oh and and then I went into New Age big time and then I rebelled I'm like forget this I'm not I don't want nothing to do it was

all about me just having a lot of fun and fun in the worldly sense and so finally when the Lord took me you know and and said no I have a plan for you it's just understanding like I went into this into the Christian realm and I'm brand new and guess what I'm picking up all the narratives of the church I'm in I'm trying to read the Bible but I don't know how to truly get into

it so I'm picking up what other people and I'm you know older women and stuff and I'll I'll never forget I'm in a Sunday school class and this older woman I would say she was probably in her 70s and at that time I was probably like you know 2930 and I and she's like you must be submissive you know it's a whole you must be submissive to your husband I'm like like and I'm fresh out of

this like I was a cocktail waitress and everything and I asked her I'm like so if he says I need to sleep with another woman with him and do a line of coke I I need to do that I said that in the class almost about cuz it was a b Southern Baptist Church oh my goodness yes and they she did not know what to do with that but it's absolutely true right submission does not mean

doing whatever they say but that's what they're a lot are taught and right there when she she was like well um and and somebody else tried to back her up and none of these women knew how to take what I asked cuz I was genuine guys I'm pretty much raw person you you you've met me and and my producers is what get it is and behind closed doors I'm the same way yeah and so that right

there I was genuinely asking this question because I'm brand new in the faith and I'm going you know and then I kept with all the scenarios like what if this happened and what if that happened right exactly where do you try the line yes right so and and the the line is if if if you're asked to sin or cooperate in their sin which is what domestic abuse is right God does not call us to that

right we are not to submit defer or anything to someone else's sin right or asking us to sin it's like would we ever say to a child well if your parent asks you to steal that's okay right no no a child has the right to say sorry Mom and Dad I'm not doing that unfortunately many children don't know their rights exactly right they don't you know but it's that concept right that you wouldn't you would never

say it's okay for a parent to tell a child it's steal no no so why is it okay to commit other sins right no and it it's it's also under understanding the whole I would say the whole entire chapter of Ephesians it not only the whole well the whole Bible but the right that see that we have hermeneutical hermeneutics is the study of and application of scripture right how do you study it and apply it the

hermeneutical principle is a text taken out of context is a pretext for whatever you want it to mean wow so we have to make sure we study a verse in context of the chapter in context of the book in context of the Bible okay and if we don't do that we're we're missing the overreaching theme of scripture which is of course Jesus and his love exactly and and I and that's the thing this is why we

have I don't know I think I read somewhere that we have over like 30,000 different denominations in the world wouldn't surprise me and that's how it happened because if you have leaders who are and God's dealing with this I could see it like you have leaders that now it's become a business or and this is what I tried to share with those young clients that I have that are that grew up in whatever denomination or or

religion honestly because I have people that are not Christians that come and just to get them to understand that what you just said it's like well what does you know have you read it you know it's not you know what you're you're you're going by what other humans have put the narrative in your in your head yeah and it's like you have to understand who you are in Christ who you are and and that's what Set

Me Free was understanding who I was in Christ that I was fearfully and wonderfully made that God cared about the hair on my head yes and so if he cared that much for that why would he not care about my soul exactly exactly and for anyone listening please understand that because that's one thing I try to start with my clients some of them that come from really abusive backgrounds and because I've had a deal with quite

a few teenagers you know and it's like emotional abuse what am I going to call DCF to every or CPS whatever you want to call it DCF is the old school name of it I guess I'm stuck in that no it DCF is the current name oh it is yeah Child Protective Services HRS used to be oh my God theing I used to work there then when I went through okay wow so you understand then like

it's like when am I going to do sit on the phone and be a caseem man without trying to help the client I had to help Empower them and I was it was secular so you know I I didn't become a therapist until after I became a Christian but I worked in the secular environment until three years ago when I started through the valley therapy yeah and okay so we're going to now transition which is what

I did too I worked for women in distress which is the local domestic violence agency when I graduated I did my internship there and then they hired me and they allowed me to start a faith-based initiative there the first one in any domestic violence program in Florida wow where I would be able to stand in front of a bunch of professionals and say your clients will not fully heal till they find peace with God what wow

I wasn't allowed to do any of that yes and know it's it's interesting people don't often understand the ethics yeah they're like oh I can't talk about this no if you're client brings it forward as an issue you are allowed to talk about it even if you work in a secular agency that's true that's true you can't prze you can't try and convince them that they should become a Christian you can't share the gospel per se

but you can certainly talk about the spiritual issues okay and and and that is perfectly fine all right so I want now to just go into the differences because I know you teach a course on this right and that's something I know once I got because I was so used to because I went to a sex I went to Nova Southeast University there is it was all about the DSM is my Bible ah yeah okay and

that was it there was no other anything else and and then I'm a new Christian coming in and I'm trying to study it on my own and being in a different church not the church I'm in now but and then there like I went from Catholicism and Sania and new age and now here I am a brand new Christian trying to figure this all out and I'm reading this Bible what do I leave behind and right

and so now I become a therapist and I I know how to to be a therapist for everybody right because that's what we're trained and three years ago the Lord called me to open up through the valley therapy and when I said and when when I in prayer I felt it in my heart holy spirit's going no it's going to be a Christian counsel and I'm like okay what's that mean like am I biblical counselor am

I and so I've always been confused about this because it's and I know at the Stress Management um you you perfectly said it and I want you to say it again okay since I don't remember exactly what I said let me try again so biblical counseling and Christian Counseling are are two different things right biblical counselors are those who only use the Bible okay they do not believe in Psychology it started out with Jay Adams and

his psycho Babble terminology that psychology means nothing psychology is from the devil wow and so all we need is the Bible and any problem that anybody has can be found in scripture therefore we don't need to study anything else okay so when I give a client when I'm working with a client as a Biblical counselor all I can give them is scripture really and so that's separate okay that is pure biblical counseling Okay Christian Counseling on

the other hand is having a Christian world view MH and our worldview consists of how we view God how we view humans how we view where truth comes from how we believe creation happened those basic foundational Christian views okay and if we start with that Foundation of Christianity of a Christian world view that people all people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect because we're all made in the image of God Amen yes that God

is is the loving creator of all things if we start with those premises we on top of that we look to scripture and we say okay what does the scripture say about this issue about that issue and how do we apply that to our counseling okay so I can counsel from a Christian perspective and never use scripture okay okay because what I'm doing is I take psychology and I look at it the course I teach is

the integration of psychology and theology right so I take what I know about psychology and I say does this fit scripture okay I don't try and make scripture fit psychology I make the psychology fit scripture okay so therefore I can look at somebody like Freud and say a lot of that that's not biblical in his theory but defense mechanisms are right running hiding deflecting all of those things that Freud said were defense mechanisms against what's going

on I can say yeah that that that's true so I look at Psychology I look at the things that I I learn and I say if I bring this back to scripture scripture always wins out okay yeah it is the foundation MH so if it doesn't fit scripture then I leave it but all truth is God's truth so if there's something true in what I know from psychology then I can say okay I can use this

I can do this I can you know I'm a very big on cognitive behavioral spiritual therapy so tell me a little yeah I want to know about that cuz I I consider I mean that's so that's how I was trained CBT all the way right CBT but we need to as Christians I think we need to add the spiritual I think that's why I call myself a Christian integrative therapist because the spiritual part plus the physical

I have studied like nutrition arvic traditional Chinese medicine yeah we are mind body and spirit amen and what affects one affects the other so if I am hurting spiritually I'm not going to feel good I'm going to be depressed all of these other things right if I am struggling with chronic pain my mind is exhausted exactly my spirit is exhausted because chronic pain is just debilitating right right so we have to look at it from that

perspective so when I deal with a client I'm looking at their mind how do I help them to cognitively understand and do a what we have to do right a lot of reframing and restructuring of thought processes because those old lies hold on and on and on so we look at that we look at behaviorally what do they need to do to make changes in their life and sometimes those behaviors are also cognitive right right rethinking

right training yourself to stop your thoughts it's renewing of the Mind exactly right romance right renew your mind yes it is looking at that and saying okay so I need to stop that's a behavior but it affects your mind as well right and then I also have to look at the person from a spiritual perspective that we are Spirit yes and you can't whether you believe in Christianity whether whatever you believe in there is a spiritual

component to all of us God made us that way yeah what's the there's that saying where it's like we're I think that's a quote from it is a quote I'm not sure I agree because I think we are integrative yeah I think we are all of that right right um but I understand the concept that it's easier for people to understand that concept well some other people think we're not spiritual at all I mean okay so

I want to I want to ask you this question um like I had I had a couple clients that come in and they're like well I want the science part of what you do and I want nothing to do with the Christianity what do you think of that I think that's totally fine okay I think that it what makes me a Christian therapist is not if I quote the Bible it's not even if I tell them

biblical things right it is that that's my Foundation yeah that is how I councel so when I worked at a secular agency I could absolutely work with anybody and everybody Muslim Native American me too right because I have that foundation and whatever I tell them is still going to be true and it's still going to be biblical yeah I just don't label it that way okay and that's how you get to work in a secular agency

and feel very comfortable doing so right and as I said earlier the key is if a client brings up the issue you're allowed to talk about it right and so I at women in distress I became became known as the spiritual guide so anytime any of the therapists had a issue or a question regarding a their a client who came in and had questions I would be the person they would come to okay and then I

would help to guide them on how to best help their client okay through that issue yeah and and I mean it's and this is one other thing that I realized too now that I opened up through the valley therapy a few years ago I'm learning more and more about different denomination ations because honestly like you have someone oh you're a Christian therapist and then they come in and to me like anyone that's an intern listening to

this you have to have this understanding like if especially if you're going into the faith-based realm of things Even in our group we have different denominations that believe different things like how do you handle that great question and so it it's hard and I'm a mutualist I don't even know what that means okay this is her professor her professor ISM coming out I love it I love it I need to audit your class or something well

a mutualist is someone who believes in the mutuality of male and female okay that we are there to compliment each other in the the right use of the word compliment each other we are there to fill in for each other when need it and all of those things but often I have clients who come in who believe in headship and submission yes where okay I think I know where you're going with this so how do I

help them if that's their belief system right without saying well this is my belief system exactly because we're therapists so that's this is where I'm trying to disentangle them exactly so I think the way you do it is you work within their belief system okay you correct when you can but you also honor their beliefs so if you believe in headship and submission nowhere does that give you the right to boss somebody around right or to

judge them because aren't we therapists right but I mean as far as what I would say to the clients oh okay right God has all the power in the world he is our head he forces us to do nothing right he never does he gives us free will right and we work within that fre and that's a whole another thing too oh my gosh and so this is like Lord what you get me into let me

go back to the secular environment please it's true it's true it can be so complicated yes no it is it's a very complicated situation and that's what I'm saying it's like all of a sudden someone's telling me about um you know Calvinism and are you Armenian and are you this and are you that I'm like oh my gosh oh my gosh I'm not a theologian I'm not and that you know what that's a great answer I'm

not a theologian I'm I only know what God has put on my heart because I'm a relationalist I'm all about a relationship with God Amen I'm not about Dogma I'm not about theological doctr you guys could try to be right all you want but I want the relationship exactly right and that's part of the problem with our denominations right it's that we focus on the denominational path rather than Jesus came for relationships Jesus didn't come for

denominations amen and I think that's just a a sa Satan's tactic to keep us just like politics keeps us so like fighting each other instead of coming together as one like we're supposed to be absolutely absolutely we are supposed to be one in Christ right head body we all need it all yes rather we we we create these Waring factions right and that is not helpful to well that would be the ego that would be the

fles cuz if we we took up our cross every day and truly truly like sub submitted and surrendered and it's a practice it's a practice that I had to learn like I think I'm in my 50s now and now I'm learning it more than ever I wish I would have known it at 20 I wish somebody would have taught me or or was gentle with me instead of judging me and telling me like okay you you

know now you're married and you need to be submissive and and so proverbs 31 came at me and I love the Proverbs now that I understand it in context and everything right well and the other thing people teach on the Proverbs 31 Woman and her family called her best she was a businesswoman she made her own financial decisions exactly she was inde she bought she sold she and it's she had employees underneath her but what it

does to like what it did to me personally it made me I already had anxiety I already had stuff from my child childhood you know what I mean but in May I became a Christian it was like oh you want to be the prover 31 Woman and I'm like what is that okay I'm going to do that because I was this stuff ain't working so but then I'm like oh my gosh I have to be perfect

yeah yeah I have to be perfect and there was no real Proverbs 31 Woman right that was a anal amalgum of all of these things but also we need to take it in context she wasn't just a housewife she wasn't just a mother she was so much more so yeah there there was a time when I rebelled and I said I'm not that then I really read the whole of that chapter and I was like this

is me I'm good with this I will be the Proverbs 31 Woman and I'll own my own business and I'll do this and I'll do that but it's okay if you don't ladies if you're listening to me please understand that this is not the standard honestly that is what churches that I've seen do and then all of a sudden you're already suffering in the church because you don't think you know if if if your church tells

you like oh you're not praying enough you know spiritual bypassing you you're not praying enough you don't have enough Faith uh this is from the devil and you're already feeling guilt and shame I'm like it could be your hormones it could be your going through it could be stuff from your past coming to fruition that you need to deal with in a gentle loving way in therapy yeah what that's that's such a good point because is

what I teach my students is look at the way Jesus healed people Jesus is our model amen right amen how did he heal people sometimes it was a word sometimes it was spit in the mud and rub it on the eyes which by the way was Medicine of the day sometimes it was oil again Medicine of the day sometimes it was wash in the Jordan seven times which showed that sometimes healing is a process amen it

is not instantaneous so when when people say oh you're filled with you know evil spirits or you've got this going on or that going on it's sin in your life right the disciples said to Jesus with about the blind man who sinned him or his parents his answer was neither it was for the glory of God wow so we have to be careful yes our place is not to judge that's right but and as the church

we do too much judging we need to step back and say all right Grace amen compassion Mercy that's right love that's what Jesus did with people and we are to follow Jesus amen amen like I I'm and that's that's my focus I have to stay focused because if I start listening to too many voices outside of my head it becomes so overwhelming and and it's just like you guys it's like who do you say how Jesus

says who do you say Jesus is like who do you say I am yeah and so you know I know I could talk to you forever yes oh my gosh this was wonderful I I know I know so just for the last thing um is there anything you would like to say any any Bible verses or any encouragement to anyone that's listening right now before we close two things um if you notice my email is 5020

right Genesis 5020 okay that's where that comes from I had a college professor Bible Professor he said we all have to have 5020 Vision Genesis 5020 is when Joseph's brothers are standing before him begging forgiveness wow and Joseph says to them am I God what you meant for evil God meant for good to save many and that I think if we can have that Redemptive view we start to put things in place amen it doesn't mean

that everything is good and and that is such a a lie that is misused no everything is not good god did not intend evil but he will redeem the years the Locust have e and he will redeem those parts and those pieces in order to make good come of it and then the other verse that I always remember and got me through so many hard times with Psalm 121 I will lift my eyes to the hills

where does my help come from my help comes from the Lord and I that just I have to tell myself that over and over and over again especially on the hard days yes cuz we all have them therapists have them we're humans you know yeah thank you so much so where can somebody find you they can they can go to well what either of my websites okay um and I'll put them in the show notes yes

living uh life abundantly free.org or cc.org um they can also call me okay 30549 1778 that's my phone number you're brave I will never put my phone number on I get so many phone calls now I'm actually I just you are you from the beginning of this podcast your story of like oh my gosh so much fear to now you're like yeah here's my number come get me and see what happen no I'm Kidd exactly I

should be careful with that shouldn't it's all good listen it's like we're covered you know what I mean and we know where we're going I just did a um a seminar from Malaysia and uh all of a sudden I'm getting all kinds of emails from Malaysia yeah probably wanting you to be their therapist wanting information oh wow okay so you know thank you so much for being vulnerable for sharing and I just pray that this this

episode will touch someone that needed it because that's why I I do this these episodes this podcast it's not for me it's to glorify the Lord in the gifts that I have and so and amen for you doing this thank you thank you for coming and maybe if I continue after 13 episodes I might I will have you back for sure awesome and we'll talk about a thousand other things maybe you could just teach me about

more this um that class that you teach for sure all right guys thank you for ladies or gentlemen or whoever you are thank you for listening and remember to always trust in the Lord guard your heart and renew your mind bye