Single, Sexual, and Saved: Healing Shame, Purity Culture Wounds, and Disenfranchised Grief w Tracy Nallery Fultz, LCSW

Hello there fearfully and wonderfully made human and welcome back to the another episode of the Holistic Counselor podcast. It's me Diana S. Rice from Through the Valley Therapy and Transform Mind Consulting and Coaching.

Today we're going to talk about something I have seen again and again in the therapy room over the years, especially with clients who deeply love Jesus, want to keep their faith, but are also trying to disentangle what is truly biblical truth from what they were raised in, taught culturally, or absorbed through church systems that may have created more guilt and shame than freedom.

This isn't about deconstruction for the sake of tearing things down, but about discernment, healing, and learning how to hold faith and humanity together in a healthier, more honest way. I recently had a conversation with today's guest and I knew immediately this was a conversation we needed to have here on the podcast.

Her work sits right at the intersection of faith, grief, relationships, sexuality, and emotional healing and it speaks directly to so many people who feel unseen, misunderstood, or alone in the church. I am so honored to welcome Tracy Nallari Fultz. Tracy is a licensed clinical social worker and the owner of Heartfelt Needs Counseling and Caring Center.

She brings over 20 years of experience in the mental health field and is deeply passionate about helping people heal emotionally, spiritually, and relationally. Her work focuses on relationships, grief, faith, and mental health and she has a unique ability to make complex topics both practical and deeply compassionate.

Tracy blends solid clinical training with a faith-based approach helping women break free from unhealthy patterns, navigate loss with courage, and cultivate emotional health while strengthening their spiritual walk. Her work is inspired by Isaiah 61:1-3 and grounded in the belief that true wholeness happens when body, soul, and spirit are aligned and cared for.

She's also a newly published author writing devotionals that reflect her own life journey, including her work My Journey Solo, which supports singles seeking healing, honesty, and hope. Tracy was honored as the National Association of Social Workers Social Worker of the Year in 2021 and her heart for this work is unmistakable.

Tracy, I'm grateful you're here today. Thank you for coming on. I'm so glad to be here, Diana. Very excited. All right, so let's tell the audience a little bit of your story. Can you share what led you to create Heartfelt Needs and specifically what inspired you to write My Journey Solo and speak openly about being single, sexual, and saved?

Yeah. So, my my practice Heartfelt Needs really came out I say what did it come from and it really came from obedience. God set me up throughout the years every time there was an a scale or increase in my career, it came from God.

And so, I did go back to school to get my master's, but my plan was to get it to create an agency to help with recidivism. I wanted to work with people coming out of the prison population, but I have a surrendered heart, so I did the work and the more that I did the work, God was like, it's clinical.

It's clinical. It's clinical. And I was like, I don't want to listen to people talk all day about I want to let's I'm quick solution focused, right? My master's with CBT solution focused, so I'm like, let's find the issue. But the more he pressed on me pay attention clinically, I did.

He gave me favor. A lady I went to a training, never met her before. You know how you network. Uh we exchanged numbers. That was on a Tuesday. That Friday morning she called me. She's like, I was really listening to you and if you are serious, I'm going to help you get your clinical licensure.

And she said, all you have to do is you show up, you work. I'm not going to charge you like she got to bill. And so, we created a great relationship. She did it. She trained me. Um and so, when that wrapped up, I had plans again.

I was going to move. I was going to Nashville and every door was closing. Every door was closing. Right.

And she popped back up and she called. She's like, you know, I've been thinking about you and it's time for you to open your own private practice. And so, come and meet me and I'm going to help you do that. Wow.

that was how Heartfelt Needs came about. How long ago was that and where are you located? Where's Heartfelt Needs at? Well, I'm virtual. I'm located in Woodbury, Tennessee right now, but I'm originally from Cleveland, Tennessee. And so, her practice was in Athens, small town, so she let me dabble in a little bit of everything cuz hers was like a one-stop shop.

But I am in Tennessee. I'm licensed though in South Carolina, North Carolina, and Missouri as well.

Oh, wow. Okay, good for you. Wow, that's awesome. Good to know. [clears throat] Good to know because sometimes people call me and I'm like, sorry, I'm only licensed in Florida and that's where I'm staying. And hopefully the social work compact is going to be up and running this summer.

Well, that's been a promise for a while cuz I'm a I'm a mental health counselor, so it's different. I mean, it's funny how we're all on this under this board, right? The MFTs, the CSWs, the or LCSWs and LMHC. And I think in other states it's called LPCs and I mean, it's so many so many, but we're all just trying to help.

Yeah,

that's what we're trying to Right? And so, um but but My Journey Solo. Now, let's talk about My Journey Solo. What does that mean? Because I know the word solo. Solo, you know, I'm Spanish, so it's like alone, right? My journey alone. And so many people are scared to be alone.

That is something I teach like you need to learn to be comfortable in the uncomfortable and instead of thinking you're lonely, why don't we and if you're a person that has faith, why don't we shift it and be like it's solo serenity. You get to be still.

God tells us to be still.

So, tell me, Tracy, what is My Journey Solo?

My Journey Solo was my journey. I was married short marriage four years and after I married, I was single for 15 years. And I'm like we're talking about I'm a woman of faith, so in my singlehood, there are certain things that I practice and one of them, you know, is abstinence and I date with intentionality.

Even well after my first marriage, I was very specific. I was going to date with intentionality. I'm dating because I want to be married. So, I did not have a lot of dating and courtship because of it was just not a lot coming and pursuing that I felt was appropriate.

So, My Journey Solo really is talking about the journey of singlehood and it stemmed from in my practice as I begin to mature and develop in my skills and my niche, I found myself working a lot with women, single women, and even married women, but a lot of single women who are on this journey of being single for prolonged seasons of time.

It's just not the short or you know, we have the young adults who are in their 19s, 20s. They got their high school. They got their college, but I'm finding myself working with a lot of women who are in prolonged seasons of singleness and I had that.

I was in a prolonged season of singleness. I didn't think I was going to be in a prolonged season of singleness, but I was. So, during that time, I was on a journey with the Lord. And initially, you know, I was happy. I was excited.

I was doing the work. You know, we hear about you got to heal and you do this and you make the list and all of those things. I put in all of that work and then it got to the point to where it's like, okay, I can't heal anymore when it comes relationally, you know, and so hope deferred started kicking in cuz I'm asking these questions, God, what do I need to do to make this kind of happen?

You know, and one of the mindsets that I help my women work to overcome is we begin to get in the mindset of I'm not it's because I'm not good enough. It's because I'm doing something wrong. It's because I'm unattractive. All of those what if narratives that begin to play out with us being at fault, damaged, or broken.

Yes.

I'm working with women doing this and in my practice and working, I'm like, oh my gosh, this I can this is my story. You know, I'm looking at my clients and you know, some disclosures, some things. And so, My Journey Solo actually came after a a devotion that I wrote called My Journey Surrender and that was about practicing a lifestyle of surrender to God and that too came from my journal writings.

I'm a big journal I love to journal write. I say I started young. I was a diary keeper. Okay.

just one day I was praying about what this information in my journaling and the Lord began to say, I want you to write this. I want you to share this piece of your journal entries. I want you to do these things. So, that's how it came about really just the work that I'm doing and seeing that these women need space to talk.

Yes. They need something I I put it in written form. I'm going to create it as a curriculum this year. It'll be the first time I actually do the support group with a devotion that I'm I'm writing. Okay.

And so, but it came from my lived experience and then being put before women who need to hear somebody say you are not alone girl I get it I understand.

alone. You're not broken. Mhm. You're not forsaken. Yep. Yeah and and this is something and I get it too.

Like I'm not Listen, I you know, I'm a I'm a married woman and and it's and when I have these young single because this is what I see Tracy and this is I will I can't wait to have your curriculum because to me I'm I'm going to be like you know, maybe you should you know, this is I give them that safe space to be able to work it up out and give them the tools but to be in a group in a community I think it's the it's even better.

You could do both have both because to me what I hear a lot is I did everything that my youth group told me to do. I stayed a virgin. I stayed you know, and then you have sometimes what I've seen and I've had to work through with some of of the young women is that they think they're broken when they do something sexual that somebody kind of forced on them.

Mhm. Okay? And then that to me causes a lot of grief, confusion, hatred towards God. Yeah. And then they give up their their whole faith and everything and they're trying to work out that grief. You know, and I know you talk about disenfranchised grief cuz that that can look at like a few different things, okay?

So I [clears throat] know because you have that experience and people that are listening that are going, "Oh yeah, okay. Tracy gets it. Like you went People need to understand the it isn't a linear process grief is. It's not like the Kubler-Ross here are the stages and this is how it goes.

It will come and shatter you out of nowhere. Mhm. Right? How how do you you know, if there's someone listening right now who's 28, 29 has kept their virginity has you know, they they get their hopes they the every guy their their they've been told like you as the woman need to be this you know, like I remember so one client was like, "Oh yeah, my mom was like the fragile flower or the bubble gum and the youth group."

Or do you see where I'm getting at Tracy? All the stories that a lot of young women I didn't become a Christian till 29 and I'm telling you right now by the time I was 29 I did so much stuff that most adults right now in their 60s have never even done.

So I'm just saying like to me when I became a Christian was very very different than what I was starting to hear in those four walls constantly and now as a therapist for so long working with young adults it just you know, I've gathered a lot of understanding, information, empathy, tools.

But I did I didn't experience those things. I remember, you know, being raised Catholic like it was always like you stay a virgin till married. You stayed a virgin till married. And my sex talk Tracy was, "If you get pregnant, I'll kill you."

Oh, yeah.

And that was it. And then I'm like, "How do you get pregnant?" Like I don't know. Like you know, thank goodness that you know, the public school system taught me and guess what else taught me? The streets. Mhm. My sex talk was, "I don't know why you want to have sex.

It's not good." All right, let's go there. We're going. You ready? We're ready. We're ready because listen, these are the real talks that people need to listen in order to understand that they're not alone. They're not alone and there's help. Mhm. And they could still have their faith.

Right? So let's talk about that disenfranchised grief. Yeah. So that disenfranchised grief that's when there is a significant loss or disruption in a familiar pattern and it's not socially acknowledged, openly discussed, it may not be deemed as significant. Or it's sometimes it's just misunderstood.

So when we're talking about the grief when it comes to being saved, you know, sexual and single prolonged seasons of that the disenfranchised grief is the things that we're losing as we wait. Right? So we lose our youth. We can lose our health.

We can lose like I'm remarried now. I'm in my 40s. I got married in my 40s. I got divorced in my 20s. In my 20 and you know, where she said I don't know why you want to have sex. It's not good. Well, I found it to be very good.

I love it. I enjoy it and so When it's done in a healthy way and that's one thing we don't teach our culture that it can be because we see so much I hate to say that. So like we've given Satan too much power first of all.

When God made sex Okay? But it is it's become something disgusting in our in our world view and also it is sad because you got human trafficking, you got pornography, you got young men addicted to and women.

I got to tell you I have a handful of clients are addicted to porn and the shame and guilt that they have and I have work through that with them because it is it's such people I have to teach them the science of what's happening in their system and that right?

Yeah. So let's keep going. I'm sorry. Well, I want to say something about that when we're talking about just sex and it being good and it's a gift of from God. So this is something that I say a lot in session. Our urges, our desires, being aroused, right?

The experience of sex is normal, natural, healthy, good. But we're in a fallen world. So what happened is we're having normal, natural responses, urges, experiences in abnormal situations. It's not what we're feeling it's not sex that's abnormal. It's what has been created around it.

And so that's part of the work that I do especially when we're talking about desire and arousal when people come in and they're feeling condemned. I masturbated. I was thinking about sex and or I have this desire. I want to have sex. Well, that was given to you by God, right?

We are created in the image of God. And so that tells me if I'm created in his image and when I read his word I see God have desire. He created us cuz he had a desire for worship, right? So it's not desire in and of itself that's wrong.

It's what we do in response to that urge, that emotion where we fall into the right or wrong category. So a lot of it is let's let's take some time to actually define what we're talking about. I do a lot of let's get the textbook definition.

Now let's get your lived experience definition. Excuse me. Those are facts. We're going to put some truth in it, the word of God. So when we can kind of slow down and get a understand What am I actually saying? If I'm saying I feel shame, what do I mean, right?

Yeah. Shame means I'm having a response because I did something that went outside of my beliefs, what I feel is right. That's the emotional response of shame. So if we can identify that and we're doing the work to say, "Okay, it's a feeling."

Our feelings tell us something. They're indicators of something that needs to be nurtured, understood, processed. But if it goes beyond that and it becomes the work of identity, right? If it's a spirit of shame. A spirit of shame is going to come for your identity.

A spirit of shame comes from the enemy. What does the enemy do? He kills, steals, and destroys. So we have to discern am I having an emotional response of shame or am I being attacked or influenced by a spirit of shame? Two different things.

Right. And so that's kind of some of the work that we're going to do to tear those things down. So I know we've bounced around from disenfranchised to this but I think that's one of the most important things that I do in session with my women is let let's get an understanding of actually what we're talking about and what we're feeling because I I learn when we can put some language to it they'll be like, "Well, you know what?

No, that is not what I feel." Especially with guilt. Guilt is another one when they say, "I feel guilty." What does guilty mean? It means there's an implied wrong. You've done something. What did you do wrong? Mhm. I didn't do anything wrong. Well, why do you feel guilt?

And we sit with that and we think about it and we ask questions and it's like, "Well, I do feel guilt but I've not done anything wrong." Okay, let's get some reframes in our thoughts going on and give space for our emotions to catch up with what we know.

Right. Yeah. Oh no and that's how we become people pleasers or you know, sometimes we are raised in high controlling environments or religions and and people confuse that you know, how do we whatever denomination or or religion or no matter what it's like when we confuse the human being that's pushing that narrative to control the others with what actual is in the Bible and what actually is your personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

This is right? Tracy this is I I find myself doing a lot of work with that guilt and shame. What you just said that being still and giving them a safe space because we also have to understand you're coming in with so many stories in your head and you think they're all from God or from you know, it but it

Somebody that you honor and respect that's told you that. Right. Yeah. Right. And and it's right. And and because we all are raised by a village. We're all raised by a culture. I don't care where you are in the world because we have listeners all over the world, right?

And we're all raised in an environment and now it's time to take a step back and that's is why I like the solo part. It is scary to be solo at times because you think you can't handle it. But God asks us to be solo with him.

Jesus even went into the mountains by himself. Mhm. And and and Jesus came to the world to show us the way. To show us how to be on this earth with others, with God, with himself, with ourselves. Mhm. And how you said before, Tracy, Satan's job is to do those things.

Steal, kill, and destroy Mhm. every relationship. Every relationship.

Number one, the relationship within yourself. Mhm. So, I I know that like those those young people, cuz I I deal with men, too. Mhm. But mostly the women that come to me that were maybe raised in churches and they you know went through purity culture.

Mhm. And and I get like why some people do that because you don't want your kid to run around, sleeping around, getting diseases, getting knocked up. I remember I I kind of grew up in the inner city where it's very rough

and and things that were said and and I saw things, too. You know, how do we, you and I, Tracy, now with the wisdom that God has given both of us, be able to help the next generation because these next generations are I think as you're in your 40s, you're you're Are you a millennial or Gen X?

I think I'm a X. I'm not a millennial.

I think. Cuz I'm 40 I'm 47. 48. Okay, so you're X. You're X. I'm X, okay. And I'm 54. Yeah. And we're probably both seeing, no matter where you are. And you're from the south. So, the south has that Bible Belt. Man, it to me I I I wrote a poem about it.

It's like it's the Bible Belt is choking out true Christianity Mhm. in a way that is not healthy. I That's I see. My husband's from the south. So, I I I picked He's a Southern Baptist preacher's kid from the south.

Yeah. So, I picked up a lot of, you know, going, "Wait a minute, huh?" And then I always questioned it. I'm always like, "Wait, where's this Why? Why is this So, to me like so many are believers are struggling with that desire and they can't talk about it.

You know, how do you reconcile being human? I mean, you you kind of touched on it before. Where it's like, "No, we have these discussions. It's a beautiful thing." But say that the client comes in and they were hurt by an adult as a child sexually.

Mhm. Cuz I'm going to go there, Tracy. I told you I was going to go to these places because these are the These are the people that come to us as therapists. Mhm.

And many Christian counselors that I know of don't touch these things and they and and then after they go to biblical counseling or Christian counseling and if the person that is doing the counseling does not know how to talk raw and real, you know, Yeah. what would you say to someone like, "Well, yeah, I masturbate.

Now I'm going to hell." Yeah. And I would say to them, "When you're in your relationship with the Lord, what did he say to you about that? Did he tell you you were going to hell?" Mhm. Right? We we I I do bring in the word, right?

Um because some don't want some You got to meet them in relationship first before you try to educate and say right and wrong, right? Part of being a ethical therapist is I'm going to meet you where you are and I'm going to get informed consent.

So, if they come in and they say, "I masturbate and I'm I'm going to hell." I don't go right for that. I go for, "Okay, tell me about your relationship with God. What do you know about him? Tell me about your character. Tell me about your beliefs.

What What does that stem from? Because I do the work to undo religion and cultivate relationship. Right? Religion is what's telling you you're going to hell. What does relationship tell you? Relationship tells you mercy triumphs over judgment. Mhm. Relationship tells you God is going to reveal to you when Jesus walked the earth, he was an always, A L L, capital A L L, an always tempted.

Right? And so, if it was all, um was he tempted to masturbate? If it was all, right? We know he is without sin, but he can help you because in some way, it may not have been masturbation. We you know, we got the categories, all these things, but it might have been something where self-discipline, self-stewardship, self-denial.

He had to walk in it to be without sin. Mhm.

So, if I know these things about Jesus and I know mercy triumphs over judgment cuz it's the judgment that's saying, "Masturbation, hell." Mhm. Mercy triumphs. Yeah.

What's your relationship with mercy? What's your thoughts on mercy? Many people don't know even know what that means. Yeah. Cuz some people are raised in um you know, like I like I I I talk about this a lot on my podcast because of my experience as a counselor who works with Christians and I am a Christian.

And but I I also work with non-Christians. I clinically licensed we need, you know, to have that understanding and that's part of our, you know, under with the science and the other modalities and everything. But to me, some denominations are so brutal. I don't know how else There is no mercy.

And then there's others that there is no consequence. Mhm. Right? At all. Okay? And so, to me, I go in I always want to know, you know, when did it start? Mhm. Why did it happen? What is mercy? Because people have no idea what that means.

Mhm. Right? Um I know there's people out there now in this day and age that are talking really bad about empathy. And as a therapist, you know, toxic empathy and all this empathy and it's very weak and, you know, our men are weak and, you know, within you can't be empathetic and I think they are misconstruing what empathy is, too.

Mhm.

Yeah.

and it's become such a I don't like politics in that manner when you take in the word of God to care more about a political systems than the person. The person Oh, Tracy, yes. The human being. The person, yeah. The human being. And I think as us therapists, and we are now in a day and age because I never saw this coming, Tracy.

Mhm. I don't know if you did or not, but I did not see what was coming in our field. Mhm.

And it and if we don't do something healthy for the next generations, cuz I'm seeing I'm I have I have six grandchildren. Mhm. I see things and I'm like, "Oh my goodness." And and starting younger and younger. I I see fourth graders looking at porn because the phone is so easy to just and accidentally putting in some kind of word and then boom.

And parents don't know or they don't care.

that's where it starts. Where Where you said, "How do we get this next generation?" For me, my age group is those that are parenting and grandparenting this next generation. And I feel like my path to help them is to educate those that are raising them.

To get them to the place where they're not afraid to talk about sex. They're not afraid to talk about porn. They're not afraid to talk about masturbation. It's getting them educated and not with the, you know, if you get pregnant, I'll kill you or I don't know why you want to do it.

It's not good. No, let's talk about we're body, soul, and spirit. What happens with my body? You know, what happens with my soul? What happens with my spirit when when it comes to sex? When it comes to masturbation? When it comes to this all Let's get comfortable, right?

Let's get really just down in it and be okay. How you said earlier, it's learning to become uh comfortable with the uncomfortable. If we don't, we won't change anything, right? We're going to repeat. But we got to look at it. We got to face it.

We got to talk about it. And everybody's language is going to be different. And that's where you're saying we're asking questions. I want to hear what their language is to help them, but I also got to introduce some language. And I got to introduce some normalcy.

And I have to introduce some you're not alone, right? You know, and sometimes I know as therapists, we got this thing about disclosing. Right? And so, we only disclose if we can make it fit and connect and help them cuz we don't want the focus in the session to shift.

But sometimes I found the power of disclosure to open up the floodgates. If they know, "Oh girl, I I masturbated." You know, in my journey solo, one of the things that I talk about, I remember I masturbate I I think I started about eight or nine.

Right? And when if you we don't get want to get into all the details and I don't share how and what introduced me to sex and all those kind of things. But to say, "Hey, I was a young girl Yeah. and I masturbated.

Yeah.

Hey, I was a single woman. I masturbated. I'm a married woman now. I have masturbated. Right? Now, each season I'm walking that out with God differently. Yeah.

My journey solo, I talk about in there where um um about masturbation. One of the chapters is masturbation. Let's talk about it, right?

Wow. All right. Good for you. Good for you. Good for you. Yeah, we need to because nobody nobody Listen, I I nobody can Not nobody. I haven't heard anybody talk about the word masturbation without, you know, like this is life. This is reality.

We have to come to a place in this world right now where if we do not Because everything was always under the carpet. Mhm. I don't care what culture you are from. I know in my Latin culture it was just like yeah, uh-uh, no.

Like you let's pretend it's not happening. We just in my culture was loud. Right? My husband's a white man. In his culture it was so quiet. Like it's like okay, we're not we're going to pretend it's not happening. Let's be, you know, the boys got higher and it's very sweet.

You know, it it's just like okay, where did that get us? And you know it's so funny when I hear different things, right? Because I didn't hear about masturbation in the church until after I was divorced and I was trying to figure out is it right?

Is it wrong? Growing up when it the sex stuff was Jezebel. Oh, so you're okay. I didn't I know I studied that. I studied that because I'm like somebody called me that once and I'm just like that's a pretty name. You know, like Jezebel and the woman caught in adultery and Delilah.

That's what sex got you linked to, right? Because a woman's girlfriend, you know, is so powerful and it can make a man just lose all of his self-control and integrity. That's what I was raised up hearing in the church.

Now raised in the church, yes, but kind of different when you're hearing um I would we were sent to church, sent to Sunday school, different things, but it was not like the even though I was exposed to the purity culture and some of the things uh that wasn't the camp that I was in even though it's like you know, I want I knew I was supposed to save myself for marriage.

Right. But the sex was just don't do it what I got raised because you're Jezebel, you're Delilah, you're the woman caught in adultery. That's what got And and and what always okay, I was raised by a bunch of women with Catholicism and Santa Maria, all right?

So that's a whole that's a whole different uh talk, but to me what I was seeing and and I know that that was like hey, don't you dare do these things, but I also had this thing where I had to learn to trust males and so I have that little bit and people are like you know, you got that Jezebel spirit.

I'm like no, I didn't know any better back when I was younger. You got to learn to forgive yourself and move forward and understand like all right, this is things that have happened. You're not stuck in them. Now how do I now glorify the Lord with my story and my testimony?

But back then what I was seeing with others or when I became a Christian and I was in these in the church atmosphere learning and trying to be like wait, what? Uh you need a why did men got away with everything and the women it was always the woman's fault.

I got so angry at that and I that's I I I would I have a minor's in women's study at FAU the college of Florida Atlantic University in a secular environment. That's how I got saved Tracy. I was studying women's studies. I was going to get a master's in women's studies.

But when I was studying women in religion that's when I realized when I studied like who Jesus really is Mhm. that's when I was really like wait a minute, women brought I mean Jesus brought women forward. Yes. Constantly. Respected us. Mhm. Gave us um autonomy.

Yeah. Loved us. There was never once that I ever hear a blaming the way I felt the blame and shame throughout the culture I've been living in 54 years here on this earth in America. And to me I don't want to put men down.

Right. At all. Mhm. Okay, because they have their own struggles that I will never know about. I could read as many books as I want and I tried to understand. I'm raising sons and grandsons. Mhm. So sex on both ends, you know, men are taught you're not you know, a man unless you have this many women.

Yeah. While us women are taught that if you ever have more than one man, you're the Jezebel Mhm. Yeah. What do we do with this Tracy? We educate. We educate. We support, you know, we men the man and the woman. And and we something else that I do I I work to say okay, let's look at our timeline.

In each timeline there's a new teaching, there's a new you know, like you said the purity culture. I'm talking about be scared of the woman cuz she's just that's old for us now, right? So we educate, we hold space and we say yeah, that was that, but what are your thoughts on that now?

And and we let them know you we are human. That means we're not perfect. We get it wrong. Absolutely. And I'm sorry that was your experience. They got it wrong. They got it wrong. And and ignorance is a word that I say cuz some of our words in our English language have gotten a bad rap and we think to call somebody ignorant, oh my gosh, that's just so wrong and rude and disre No, ignorant ignorance means a lack of knowledge.

Mhm. Right? So we can admit and own up to I they were ignorant. They were repeating what they were taught. Uh most of that comes from men and like you said we're not putting down men, but they were operating in the spirit a spirit of fear because they didn't and I'm I'm doing the work.

We're redefining self-care. What is self-care? It is self-stewardship. It is slowing down to learn how to walk and operate in self-discipline for me to show up as my best self and being my best self for me and in the relationships we have. We teach self-care.

Right? They didn't have self-care. The Lord told us go and make disciples of men. Who was the ones that were discipling them and what were their things that were unhealed? What were their things that they were ignorant of? So we got to give space for where did it come from?

Where did it originate from? And say now that I know better now that I have a different understanding can I relate to myself differently? Yeah. Can I you know, another thing that I do with my clients is I talk about the fruit of the spirit.

When we're going to process trauma and we're going to process our pain stories, we're going to process our betrayal, shortcomings, even our our view of self when we have a negative view of self that we're trying to overcome. I say we always hear the fruit of the spirit and we think about how do we operate in that toward others.

But let's flip it and how do we operate in that toward ourself? Wow. I love that. So let's talk about the fruit of the spirit a little because some people honestly like I have I have listeners that are uh like Christian curious. Does that make sense?

They're not Christians, but they're like okay, I want to understand. There there's some that are believers and they've been walking for a long time and then you have those that want nothing to do with Christianity at all and that's fine. Like you know, I'm not here.

I'm not I'm not God. I'm just here trying to do my best on this earth with the knowledge I have and um you know, and the resources that I have. So Galatians 5:20 I remember when I first heard that after um walking with Christ like you know, back in 2000 and I I remembered I know it's in Galatians 5:22 and 23, I think, right?

I'm pulling it up here. Yeah, and to me I remember self-control is something that I remember the nun used to beat at me and tell my mom and then I would get home and get a beating too because that was it. She lacks self-control.

She lacks self-control. And so of course that you know, when you're 6 years old hearing that for a whole year straight and getting you know, with a ruler with the nun it's just like you start believing that and this is why I try to teach people like stop and listen to why you believe the things you believe.

Does that actually come from the word of God? Word of God. Or did it come from a person who used the word of God against you? Yeah. For controlling you. Mhm. Right? So back to Galatians 5:22 to 23. Mhm. Which is which is the fruit of the spirit.

Mhm. Can you read it, please?

Yes. But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. So I love all of that because if you really think and dissect each one, how do you use it in in a therapeutic format?

Yeah. And I wish I could show you but how I use it is I've created a handout that we go and I list what the fruit is and we give a like let me just give you an example. So a fruit is love.

So I want to learn to practice unconditional acceptance. That's the definition that I gave love, unconditional acceptance. So what does that look like in a practical step as we go through this journey for you to heal your self-view, self-image, how you relate to yourself.

You're going to speak kindly to yourself instead of judging yourself. So that's how we're going to apply the fruit of love, right? And then we look at joy. Joy definition, deep sense of peace and gratitude. What is that going to look like as we walk this out?

It means you're going to find meaning in small moments even while you're grieving or in distress. Okay, well let's stop right there. Okay. Cuz that is probably one of the hardest things for humans to do especially when we live in a culture that is being pushed constantly through social media, through whatever you're watching that joy equals happiness equals stuff, materialism, feeling this ecstatic like vacation kind of lifestyle.

And honestly, we have to come back to understand that the whole range of all emotions is part of the human condition. Condition. And we need to be okay with that. Mhm. So with that joy, people confuse like you know, joy with constantly not you know, well I'm depressed.

Right. Right? I'm like, yeah, but you have the reason to be depressed. You're someone just

Yes. Yes. And people don't You know what I mean by that?

Yeah. Yeah, I do. Absolutely do it all the I all the time. That's one of the things like of I find what we do when we're holding space, we're we're normalizing and saying what what are you supposed to If somebody just died, if if I just found out my husband had an affair, right?

If I'm in my prolonged season of singleness, what am I supposed to feel? I'm not supposed to be happy and excited, you know? That would be an abnormal emotional response. What you're feeling it is normal for what you're experiencing. It's based on the circumstance.

And when you were talking about they confuse happiness and joy, right? The way that I try to break it down and say, happiness is an emotion. Joy is a condition of your soul. Wow.

And so we break that down. What does that look like? If I'm grieving, right? The Bible tells us we are to grieve, but not as if there is not as one who has no hope. Not as if there is no hope. I grieve because I love.

I grieve because there's life that was once embedded in mine. Right? So I'm going to grieve, but I'm not going to hit despair, right? I'm not going to hit hopelessness and defeat because my hope is not in me. It's not in the person that I lost.

It's in Christ. Amen. So if I grieve and I take my grief to him, right? He's near to the brokenhearted. I take my grief to him. He's going to do what I can't. My grace is sufficient. I can't make myself I don't even know how to connect with joy when I lost my father, right?

I don't even know how to connect with joy when I'm I'm divorced and time is going by and I'm aging and I want to have a baby and everybody's getting mar- How do I connect with joy? By getting into the presence, right? By going to the Lord.

I love Psalms 23. There's so much in there. I'm going and he says, I cause you to lie down in green pastures. I lead you beside the quiet streams. I restore your soul. That's where the joy is in my restored soul. So those things like that, it's not I don't get joy by what I do.

I get joy by who I'm in and who is in me. Right. And that's hard for people that don't that have church hurt. Mhm. You know? Because that's what I work a lot with is those that come in with so much anger and resentment and bitterness because of a lot of abuse and narcissism in in the systems that should have protected them.

Right. Be angry. Have the resentment. Normalize, right? Yeah.

normal. Yeah. And we work through it. Yeah. And even at God. We Yes. Lamentations. Raging at God. Raging, right? Right. Um Jonah. I mean, there's all we can see where people had strong emotions against God. He didn't zap them, No. condemn them.

No. Jesus in Matthew 26, the garden of Gethsemane. Father, take this cup. Right? I don't want to do this. Where are you at? Right? He he cried and was so in so much distress and anguish, his tears became as drops of blood. Yeah.

That That Why would you do this to to a people that you know, like so normal feel that. Feel all of it. He can take it.

He can take it. Let's go back to the rest of the fruits of the spirit because I would I think that would be very beneficial for someone that's listening that's never seen him that way or don't even know him, right? So we did love and joy.

What were the others? Peace. So peace, a calm trust in God's presence. So what that would look like would be grounding yourself in truth when anxiety rises. And these are just examples that quick I'm going to show you this list and let's get started.

You add to it. So So like with when we're talking about peace, I don't know what peace feels like. A calm trust in God's presence. I don't know what that feels like. So I give them another exercise of what I call soaking. I think I said, God, you know, it's so funny because we the body of Christ, we are so afraid of certain things.

So now it's sound baths. People are doing sound baths and all these things. Well, in my space, I was taught to soak in the presence of God. What does soaking in the presence of God look like? You get prostrate or you find a position to where you can just center yourself, begin to steal yourself and you let For me, it was instrumental music.

I don't go into pray. I go into sense and to be present and to find out how he's going to touch me. That's soaking. Right? Some people do it to spoken word. But so I say, well, if they say I don't know how to calm myself in God's presence.

I give them examples. Go do this and start out 3 to 5 minutes. And if you tingle and you struggle and your mind That's okay.

[clears throat]

And the way I do it is a lot more uh because to me breath work is so important. Mhm. And like the Breathly app, which I'm going to put these things in the show notes. Anything we talk about that I can find, I'll put in the show notes for the listener.

you this too if you want to add it. Oh, I would love that. Yes, Tracy. Um it's just breath it's being still and regulating your nervous system. Scientifically proven that we have because we live in a world that's on all the time and sometimes it's scary when you're still.

There's people that cannot be still because a lot of the trauma they had in childhood would come rushing in. I know when I was doing yoga, there's things that happened when I was finally taught to be still cuz I was always on, but people don't realize that that nervous system uh disregulation could be part of why you are making poor choices.

And is it your fault? No, not really because no one taught you how to calm down. Yeah. You know? Because we could read as much as we want in the word, it's the action that goes behind the living word. Right. Right? Yeah. So peace is, you know, some some people can't sit in nature and listen to birds.

It freaks them out. Mhm. So we have to find a different way. Would it be a cold plunge? Could it be a sauna? Could it be a nice walk in a park? Could it be um turning every electronic off? Off. Yeah. You know?

Rest. That's a one of the forms of rest, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we think rest is sleep. But rest is what do we do to calm down or be rejuvenated? Without guilt or shame because I know in my culture, resting Yes. Girl, I know probably in your culture, too.

Resting is like, what? You better get up. You can rest when you die. Yeah. Yeah, we have that. All right. So what else after

Okay. So we got patience, willingness to wait and trust. Like that being still. So that would be giving yourself permission to heal slowly. Cuz I find out they come in and after the Am I And so I hit that at the first. Let me tell you, everybody's different.

We might have four sessions, eight sessions, 10. We might have years. So giving yourself to know that it's progression, Yes. not perfection or finality. Ooh, I love that. It's the perfect Yes, because that's what people want. It's the perfection. All right. Plus I'm I got things to do.

I'm I'm spending this money. I got things to do. I have no patience and it's like you're going to pay either way. Either you're going to pay for help and prevention or you're going to pay after when you I hate to say it, but lose your mind to a place where it's not healthy.

Mhm. So it's like learning patience it goes with peace. With peace, yep. Learning patience goes with So being peace uh having peace that I'm on a journey. I'm in the middle of a process. And it's okay.

it's okay. And that radical accept I need to accept that this is the moment that I'm in. I can't change what happened to me. I can kind of, you know, take steps to kind of navigate and put some things in place for my future, but can't control it.

So let me just be in this moment. Let me just be in this moment. So that that's going to that kindness, right? Compassion and warmth. And and I teach that. Let's Let's see what our tone sounds like. Does my tone sound warm? What does my words?

Am I using the right words? So it's treating yourself gentle in moments of weakness. And then we we educate on weak weak is another word in our language that's gotten a bad rap. Right? It's not something to be afraid of, something to resist, something to be ashamed to show.

Weakness is a sign that there's something needed, that there's a lack of, that there's a deficiency or that something needs to be developed. All right. That's all it is. It's telling you something. Yes. Not identifying you. Oh my Tracy, that's so good.

It's telling you something. It's an indicator Mhm. of something that you might need. It's not your identity. Not your identity. Oh my gosh. So good. All right, what's next? Goodness, moral integrity and virtue. Choosing healing habits aligned with your values. That's how we would walk out goodness to ourselves.

Faithfulness, loyalty, and commitment. Showing up for yourself. That's good work. You got to show up for yourself with consistency and care. We're always worried about everybody else. Everybody But what about me? But that's that's a training and I and I hear this a lot is the disentangling of being selfish because we do live in a very selfish society and culture.

I I I and it is and and it is a training like you know, you got to put everyone else first. This is you know, the last will be first and the and and just everything, you know, it to me it's the whole putting the mask the oxygen mask on you so you're able to be healthy enough to help everybody else, but there's a big training in in Christian culture and well and in women that it you know, we are the nurturers most of us.

We are the ones and it's okay if if we say, "No, I need this hour every day." Every day, yeah. Without guilt or shame.

That's what I'm saying. We have to redefine uh self-care. We have to redefine what it is because the Bible says, you know, first God love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, body, soul, all of that. The second is love your neighbor as Yes.

yourself. So, if I'm going to practice self-care, I'm not practicing selfishness or self-centeredness. I'm practicing how do I care for my body, soul, and spirit to be good for me in a healthy way.

healthy way in a healthy way, of course. Yes. In a healthy way. Healthy ways. Scrolling scrolling for an hour on your phone. It's not self-care. No. And then and you're right. It is trying to redefine it, Tracy, because some people are like, "Well, no, I want to go and eat my big bag of chips while I watch Netflix for an hour.

That's what makes me feel good." And sometimes I'm like, "Okay, I don't want to judge them for that's their thing." But I'm like, "Does it really make you feel good to have those processed?"

Tia oil. Sometimes it too it's looking at the why because the decision-makers. I have some women who they're they have decision-making fatigue. They're always in their head, always got to do this. And the only time that they can get rest is when they can go somewhere else and that's aided by movie.

That's aided by a book. So, when I come out so I engage to say, "Okay, when you leave that space, how do you leave? Do you leave in a lower mood?" Or do you leave refreshed? Do you leave feeling like, "Okay, that was good.

I laughed. I disconnected. Now let me go." How do you leave? Not the big bag of chips, I know, but if I need to sit on the couch for an hour and I'm there

But once in a while, okay, I got to I got to reframe that because once in a while because, you know, I think us women we have a the four seasons every month until you hit menopause, right? It's like the four seasons, winter, spring, summer, fall.

And if you're in the winter season of that month and you need that big thing of macaroni and cheese. Okay, I get it. I get it and I'm not going to put put it but I like how you just said that. After you are done with that, are you feeling better or are you feeling worse?

Cuz if you're feeling worse, that's an indicator that that's self-care is not caring. And let's let's let me let's talk about what you just said about that too. I'm we're going to do all of our topics cuz we were talking about masturbation, right?

So, that's one of the things cuz people come to me and say, "Do you think masturbation is right or wrong? Is it a sin? Is it not a sin?" So, one of the questions that we look at and we work through is how you said before, what what brought you to it?

Why are you masturbating? But you also say, "How do you feel when you leave that space?" Oh. Right? So, and I just being personal with me in my season of prolonged singleness, did I have occasions where I did? Yes, but I left it feeling condemned, nasty, wrong, right?

And so, not in the church. I I went to school for a little while to uh Institute of Sexual Wholeness to work to become a certified sex and it was in that space uh sex therapist, but it was in that space where I began to hear questions and like cuz they wanted to talk about it, right?

So, I finally went to the Lord instead of kind of going around I was looking for sermons instead of going around him, I went to him and one of the first questions he asked me about masturbation was, "How do you feel not right after you're done?"

Cuz we know how we feel right after we done that right? But 45 minutes, an hour after you're done, how do you feel? Mhm. Right? And we sit with that. And I And why do you feel that way? Right.

And it wasn't cuz I had to do all the work of what I was taught, but I was like cuz really why I was masturbating in that time was solely based on my relationship status, my relation relational depression and anxiety that I was feeling and I was just so stressed out and I just and so defeated.

I'll never have sex again. It's just going to be me, God. You might as well let me masturbate because like I So, he was like, "Is that giving you peace and joy?" Mhm. What's that doing to our relationship? So, for me in that season, it was wrong because the fruit.

Yeah. And it's become an idol. Yeah, it was it was and and I was trying to appease and get comfort the wrong way. Right. And then and that's the different you know, you you have to Cuz this is something working with adolescents for so long.

It it is something that scientifically understanding the body's build up, okay? I I I and I'm not saying right or wrong because like it's I cannot sit there and put these limits on another human being cuz that is not my job. Not your Yeah.

Not my job at all. That's not what I'm called to do either. Because I'm not God. Mhm. It is for me to help you figure out your relationship with creator of the universe, your purpose, your identity, and is this thing becoming an idol or not?

Are you utilizing it because okay, it's been a month. I'm a 19-year-old dude with high testosterone Mhm. and I did it. And now I can move on. Is it that? Is it a woman who's got her period? You see, there's so many different way.

Yeah. And I was listening to a interview. I don't know if you're familiar with Julie Slattery. She does Oh, what a Java with Julie. And she was interviewing Doug Rosenaul and he shared cuz I know you you're doing some younger and I get I'm in the the middle age span.

I got the 30s, the 50s, and 60s

Oh, okay. coming before me. And one of the things that he said, there was a lady that came to him and she was saying, you know, I've been praying and I don't feel any conviction. She She knew the difference between conviction and condemnation.

I don't feel any conviction about when I masturbate. And let me tell you why. Because I'm trying to get back out there and date again and it's helping me to not put pressure, have expectations. I talked to God about Like she had all of these things around it.

And so, he was like, "Who am I to tell her? And she is in relationship with God and the fruit of the experience, the fruit of what she's doing, who am I to say?" Right. Right? So, it's like We got to be less rigid and that's where we're coming away from religion to relationship.

Because if I'm in relationship with somebody, we're having a conversation. We're going back and forth. Like if And this is something too that God intended marriage to depict healthy marriage to depict his relationship with the church. Mhm. So, if I'm growing in intimacy with my husband, what am I doing?

We're spending quality time together, right? We're being physically intimate, emotionally intimate, relationally, financial We're having all of these things of intimacy and guess what we're learning to do? We're learning how to navigate conflict, how to navigate disagreement, how to navigate different cultures, all of these things in a healthy way.

So, if God said, "Watch healthy marriage to learn how I'm going to relate to you." So, if I go to my husband and I say, "I'm having this hardship. I'm having this struggle and I know you don't like it. I know you don't approve of it."

He's not going to kick me out the house and divorce me and banish me to torture. So, why do we think God would? Uh well, you know why, Tracy? Because many of us are raised thinking God is the way that whatever parental figure treated us or or the adults around us treated us.

So, we think we we try to put God in this box to secure the fear of death. I mean, honestly, you got to think about it like existentially and and but if you understand truly by reading the word and spending time and understanding your personal relationship with the creator of this world that none of us could put in a box.

None. Not one. And anyone that says that they can, then they've just took, you know, it it goes above and beyond our brains. Mhm. Right? His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. It is just something that That's why it's in awe.

Like I know every morning when I go outside and look at creation, the sky, and I'm just like, "Lord, thank you for another day. Help me not to make too many ego mistakes." Mhm. That's what Yeah. So, but I mean, I think we could go on and talk and maybe we should finish the fruit of the spirit.

we got two more. Okay, gentleness, humble strength, and softness, soothing your inner critic with empathy. I know we talked about empathy, but And then self-control, disciplined choices. Uh choices choices choices choices choice Nobody can take your choices choices Okay, sorry. No, I love that Tracy.

Self-control self-control and choices. And boundaries. So, what would that look like? What's a practical step? Resisting, right? We got to do the work of resisting shame cycles and choosing healthy recovery paths. And so, then the reflection prompt at the end of it would be which fruit do you need most right now and how can you begin practicing it towards yourself today?

Yes. Oh my goodness, self-control. That's probably one of the hardest things. I know I I think that's why it's the last one. Right? Like think about it. Like I every word in in in the word of God is intentional. Every single one of them.

I think words are intentional. Words are you know just a a space and a place where we can use it to harm or to heal. And self-control, what you just said and how you just really emphasized choices. Mhm. Because many people feel and they come so distraught thinking they have no choice.

But I think Tracy and I are telling you that you do have a choice.

Absolutely have a choice. Oh my All right. So, listen. I cannot believe an hour went by already. And I think I could sit here and do this a lot with you.

Well, hey, have me back. So So, Tracy, is there anything you want to tell the audience before you say goodbye? Yes, I do. I want to say one that you are loved and I love your 139, right? Psalms 139. You are fearfully and wonderfully made.

And and God is your very present help in your time of need, right? In your time of sorrow. And it's really as simple as saying sometimes, I need you and I don't know what to do next. He'll meet you there. Uh the way through anything, I think, is learning how to center yourself in Christ.

And a lot of What does that look like? It just kind of looks like I'm here and I need you. Yeah. I'm here and I need you. And I want to say for every want to every woman who is in a prolonged season of singleness and you have urges and you want to have All these Tell him He's waiting for it.

I found so much freedom to to be content in my season only because of him, right? He equipped me, but I had to wait, not rush. I had to be uncomfortable. I had to let all of my emotions come in my single surrendered serenity solo place with him.

It started with him. Then I can invite others, community, that's all important, but my anchor was him and I say anchor yourself. Anchor yourself in Christ. All right. That's wonderful. So, where can someone work with you and find you? Okay. heartfeltneeds.com. That's the website.

I'm also on Instagram and Facebook. If you do heartfelt needs on those, search me out my name, but I am on Instagram, Facebook. I'm trying to get into the TikTok community. We'll see how that goes. You're Yeah. I do not touch Twitter or X or TikTok and I'm trying not to touch any social media, but it just gets you.

Right. And I my email address, traci.mallory@heartfeltneeds.com. I do want to say, you know, and this is for nationwide. I have a journaling hour community. It's a free self-care community. We meet the first Tuesday of every month at 6:00 p.m. for hour and a half.

There's education, discussion, and journaling prompts around redefining self-care, how do we be intentional about our body, soul, and spirit, and relationships. First Tuesday of the month, it's free. And then I also those that are in that community, they get weekly emails about the topics we're going to be discussing with prompts and things.

So, but heartfeltneeds.com, you can All that All of that will be in the show notes. And Tracy, thank you so much for joining me today.

Yes, ma'am. It was a great time. Thank you. And remember, listener, to please trust in the Lord, guard your heart, and renew your mind. Bye. And now for the disclaimer to make sure you understand that you are responsible for you. The content provided on the Holistic Counselor podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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