Church Hurt, Religious Trauma & High-Achieving Christian Women: Healing Perfectionism & Burnout in Leadership | Robin Goad, Author & AWS Executive

Hello, hello there fearfully and wonderfully made human. It's me Diana from Through the Valley Therapy and Transformed Mind Consulting and Coaching and your host of the Holistic Counselor podcast where I hope faith, science, and holistic healing intersect. If you've ever searched how to heal from church hurt, can you be a Christian woman and be ambitious?

How trauma affects high achieving women? Faith and leadership for women, corporate success without burnout, healing religious trauma while keeping your faith, how to stop overwork and still succeed, then today's conversation is for you. Because we are diving into something so many women silently wrestle with.

How do you rise in leadership without losing your soul? How do you pursue influence without selfabandonment? How do you heal trauma, including religious trauma, without walking away from God altogether? Today, I'm joined by someone who has lived both the boardroom and the breaking point.

Robin Go is a senior executive at Amazon Web Services where she leads global industry solutions delivering record-breaking growth and transformation. She spent over 30 years leading at Fortune 100 companies like Dell and Gardner, excuse me, closing billion-dollar deals and earning national recognition, including Dell's working mother of the year.

But behind the titles was a woman walking through fire. Robin has openly shared her journey through childhood trauma, divorce, betrayal, church hurt, and deeply personal grief, and how those experiences reshaped her understanding of identity, ambition, faith, and worth. She is the author of Girl by Birth, Woman by Fire, a raw and redemptive road map for women who want to stop performing and start healing.

This episode is not about hustle culture. It's about integration. It's about understanding how unresolved trauma can drive perfectionism, burnout, and spiritual confusion. And how Christ centered healing can restore both identity and influence. If you are a high achieving woman who loves Jesus but feels tired, conflicted, or invisible, stay with us.

Robin, thanks for being here.

Oh my goodness. Could I just I just want to record that and play that for myself every morning when I get out of bed. Oh my gosh, that was so wonderful. And what you that was so beautifully said. Oh, your voice. I'm serious.

When this podcast comes out, I'm gonna record that.

I'll give you the raw footage and then you can clip it and do affirm whatever you want. It'll be yours.

That was beautiful.

Thank you so much.

Yeah. So, hey, listen, girl. Before we dive into leadership and healing, right? I really love for the listeners to get to know you as a person, what led you to care so deeply about women's healing and how did your own life experiences shape the work you do today?

Yeah. I um I think that when you walk a path, you can't help but turn that into something you want to do for others. And I think when you get to be 54, you um you know, I I tell folks, I'm kind of over myself, you know, like I've done I lived decades in survival mode.

I lived decades in um I was a dumpster fire. my life was just it looked great on the outside, but on the inside it was a complete dumpster fire. Um, then I've spent another decade of healing. And so I'm kind of I kind of feel like, okay, let's go.

I'm ready because I just want to go back, right? I just want to go back to all those robins that are either in the season of trauma, in the season of dumpster fire, you know, whatever season they're in. um and go back and share with them um all the lessons that I've learned and all the healing that I've done and just if I could save one person

um some of the grief and uh you know I think everybody has their journey right I don't want I don't and I don't and I a girlfriend of mine we like to say with our kids you know oh he's building his testimony um and so I don't want to rob anybody of their Wait, wait.

But that's if they choose to actually surrender and change, Robin. That's that's the difference, right? Because so many people stay in that dumpster fire. And I want to understand dumpster fire like I know my dumpster fire or dumpsters. Maybe there were more than one

and explosions and explosions and and all that. I want I don't know how much you want to share, but when you say dumpster fire, like what do you mean by that? like because some things start at very young ages. Sometimes we were born in it to intergenerational stuff.

Um and sometimes it's our own choosing as a teenager or whatever happens that we never dealt with. And when you say all the Robins, I love that because I practice internal family systems a little. You know, I'm not certified people, but I understand it enough where I help I utilize it with my clients.

So to me, it's like those parts of you, right? So, what's your dumpster fire if if I may ask without like being too graphic, unless you want to be, I don't care, really is the having a podcast.

I um I promise God, you know, when when God told me five years ago, he didn't tell me to write a book. He just told me to be prepared for five years. And I'm a big journaler. And so, I keep all my journals and I read them reg, you know, I go back and I read.

And in 2021, God told me to be prepared for five years. And I wrote five years in one of my journals. God said, "Be prepared in five years." And I didn't know what that meant.

Um but then in February of 2025, I started writing my book. I got a publisher and I and I had forgotten totally forgotten about my five-year thing.

Um, and so my daughter had just had my grandson and so I wrote this book and in the book I'll tell you exact exactly what you just said the it's I I broke it up into three parts and the first part I titled relationships and just like you said um we are born into a family system that may be healthy it may not be healthy we may learn good things we may learn bad things um but

we don't know any And uh um I was born into a family that uh it was a Christian family, a very strong Christian family.

Um five generations of

Wow.

of a particular religion.

Okay. Um, and but that religion taught us that we had to work our way to heaven

and we had to be good enough to get to heaven and um and we could lose our salvation if we didn't be perfect.

And so, but then on the other side of it, um, we had sexual abusers in our family. We had uncles and grandpas that were sexual abusers. And so I was sexually abused um at age four

by an uncle. And I did not know that. I had suppressed that.

Yeah.

Um for 40 years. I mean over 40 years honestly. And um and so in in the part one of the book, we talk about those relationships. Well, guess what? After I grow up with a certain lifest, you know, certain way, I I go marry a man who's not very nice to me, and I don't even think I deserve to be treated well, and I don't even know how.

And in my family, we didn't respect men. The women were the very strong figures. So

it was always about the women and the children and the men were not leaders. We we do I can look back in my family and we just don't we we did not have strong male leaders in our families.

But is that something can I can I ask you a question? Does that something that that that religion taught or the deni denomination because you're saying this is a Christian denomination.

It's a Christian Yeah, it's a Christian denomination. So they didn't teach because mo because I speak to a lot of women and I've read a lot of books of of like um patriarchal societies and and that high religious controlling religion like you know and so to me this is the first time I ever heard that the women because usually it's the men taking the word of God to uh Bible dart the the women into submission and into abuse and stuff like that.

So to me hearing that I'm going okay wow is that a denomination? I don't I don't know if you even want to talk about that but but I want to understand it more because to me

if they utilize the word of God against the other humans to control for fear. Is that how it was used too?

No. So the men didn't even go to church. That was the other thing. Like all the men didn't even go to church. The women and the kids got up and we went to church three times a week. Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night

and all the men stayed at home and

um and then I mean it was crazy. And then the women would come home,

cook lunch, serve the men like it was um but do you see what I mean? It wasn't it just we didn't have strong men. Women they worked

um they they made the rules and so

um I married my first husband. He was not very nice to me. Um, and I didn't think I deserved to have anything nice to me because of choices that I had made in

Well, plus that's what you were taught. Like you were taught these things in society and culture. Were you Can I ask were you allowed to be outside of that?

Um, that tribe. Do you know what I mean? Were you allowed to watch TV? Were you allowed? Because I know some of those high controlling, they don't they control everything. They control what you're reading. That's part of the

That's part of the messed up part. So church was something we did.

A relationship with God wasn't brought into the home. So we never prayed. Like we didn't do Bible stud. We didn't read our Bible. We didn't pray. It was church was an activity that you went to. And it it was an operating model. It was you know you don't lie, you don't cheat, you don't steal, you are a good human, right?

It was our moral compass. But it wasn't like part of the house. You know what I And so what I learned growing up is

church is something you do.

Okay.

And and then your life is completely different. My mom and I went to church three times a week, but my she she divorced my dad, married an abusive stepdad, and we he was an alcoholic, and we had this crazy abusive I'm talking serious trauma, like

driving a truck through the house,

right?

Pistol up against your head, playing Russian roulette.

Yeah.

A lot of mental illness. very very uh volatile right environment. We never told anybody at church that

like there was no intermingling of church and your real life.

Yeah,

if that makes sense.

Yes, totally makes sense.

And so um so that's that's really everything I address. Well, I became sexually I started trying to get little boys to be sexually um into me as early as like third and fourth grade.

Yeah.

Um and I um started being sexually active when I was 14. I had three abortions, 15, 16, and 17. Wow. And then um when I graduated high school, I went to a Christian university and I was taking great Christian doctrine and it was a class about how to convince others that that this whole thing around Jesus is real.

And I went and had a meeting with the professor and I was just boohooing and I said, "I can't do this anymore." And I convinced myself for the next three years that God wasn't real, Jesus wasn't real, this whole thing was just a bunch of

junk. Yeah.

Um I've been there.

And it was and I didn't know, right? So I didn't know that what I was doing at the time was I just didn't want to face God, right? I I had made so many hor and because keep in mind I don't know in my conscious mind that I've been sexually assaulted,

right? I don't know that this environment that I grew up in

is basically a recipe for everything that I mean I was pretty much predestined to do everything I did. Um, I had an affair on my first husband after I so which also by the way very normal for women that are I I tried to self-destruct and I say that you know if you have abortions in your past um you will self-destruct somehow.

A lot of women turn to drugs and alcohol.

Yeah.

Um I thank God that I didn't turn to drugs and alcohol. I turned to my perfectionism

and my performance and that tied really well into my religion because you performed. I had to be good enough. I had to be but also because of my religion. I thought that I've done too much. Like I I have I've committed the ultimate sin.

I mean, I have pretty much broken all ten commandments

and I'm just not in jail because abortion and murder of my babies was legal.

Um, and all of this started. So, the dumpster fire that I'm talking about is all of that.

And it's the the affair, the trying to hold that marriage together, getting married a second time, um, that marriage falling apart because it it was me, right? and I was the common denominator. I was the problem.

Wow.

Um,

for you to take ownership like that to me though, because listen, what you're stating is complex PTSD, which is not in the DSM, the diagnostical statistical manual, I don't know. Did you ever go towards the mental health any kind of mental health therapy or counseling or anything like that?

I did, but they probably diagnosed you with some stuff.

I tell you,

well, they didn't. And so here's what uh basically I write about this in the book. This doctor that I saw in my first marriage u because I had already decided I was getting divorced in my first marriage and I went to the counselor and I told him I said look I'm getting divorced.

I just want you to know I'm getting divorced. I'm just coming to counseling so I can tell all those religious people in my family that I tried.

And so he said, "Well, Robin, here's the here's what he said to me." He goes, "Here's the deal. Um, every couple that comes into this room, one wants to stay married and one doesn't.

Because if you both wanted to stay married, you'd be at home staying married. If you both wanted to get divorced, you would be divorced. But when people show up here, it's because one wants a divorce and one wants to stay married." And I thought that was kind of funny.

That theory, I don't know about that, but Okay.

Well, well, listen. And then here's the other thing he told me. He said, "Robin, you're so screwed up." Wait, he said didn't say it exactly the same.

Okay, I was gonna say a therapist.

Not not his exact words, but the gest was Robin, you are so messed up if I put you in a room with a hundred men.

You were going to pick this same kind of man every time. And so I said, "Well, the devil that I know is better than the devil I don't know, so I'll just stay married." And so I did. And then ended up having an affair. ended up ending that marriage.

Um, and I write about in the book how, you know, 30 years later, I can look back and think, you know, what I wish doctor I changed his name in the book.

Yes, you need to because let me tell you, he better not be a licensed professional because everything you just told me, me as a licensed professional is a red flag. Red flag, red flag. Like, wait a minute. What? Uh-uh.

Right. Yeah. So, anyway, I changed his name in the book to protect him. Um, but that's the dumpster fire that I talk about. And it wasn't until now keep in mind on the outside everything looks amazing.

I am earning a lot of money. I am providing my kids are great but I'm I'm not a great mom at home. I'm bar we we are surviving right? Like we now I didn't make the same mistakes that I live through. I just made different ones.

Yeah. And so, um, you know, things like putting the responsibility of being the man of the house on my oldest son, right, when he's

when he's a little kid, right?

Um, and not even knowing, hey, there's going to be consequences for that. Like, it's it's just like the awareness that I have now

that I just didn't have. and and and I don't even know if I could have processed it because I think I had to finally get through the healing and really the abortion healing. So, what ended up happening, I'll just finish that story about how I got how God got me back and how I

um so I had a vision my senior year of college. I was sound asleep and I had a very vivid dream, vision, what whatever you call it. But God came to me and he said, "What are you doing?" He was very angry dad voice and he said, "What are you doing?"

He said, "You know, my son is real. You know that I'm real. Um, and I don't I don't appreciate this." And I said, "But but I I can't come back. I I've sinned too much. I've gone too far." Right? And I fall down in this vision and I'm just weeping at his feet. and he picks me up and he takes me into this room and he has three bassinets in this room

and he says, "They're right here.

I have them. Do you not think that I knew what you were going to do, when you were going to do it? I've got them." And I said, "But it's too much. It's too much. How can you love me?" you know, and he said, "Are you telling me my son is not good enough for you?"

And I said, "No, of course not, God. No." And he said, "That's what you're saying. You're telling me that me giving you my son is not good enough for you."

And I, you know, I said, "No, that's not what I mean." And he goes, "But that's what you're doing. That's what you're saying." and he kind of had the go and sin no more, you know, kind of like the woman,

go and sin no more. And I woke up and I went back to church and I started seeking, you know, the Lord. And I I talk about this in the book. I'd like to say the next 30 years of my life were great.

They weren't.

Um, but I never left God again. I never,

you know, I might have been far away from him again, but I never left him, right? I never doubted him and I never, you know, turned my back on him.

Right.

Um

it's just you didn't uh priorit like you're there and you're acknowledging but you're still doing your own thing and going all right God now bless you.

Exactly. I didn't surrender. Exactly what you said. I didn't surrender

fully.

I did not.

It's probably like, you know, here we go. Because that's the thing when you have childhood trauma that perfectionism or if you were raised in a because I was raised Catholic and so I I remember thinking in high school uh already like I'm going to hell anyway so let's have a let's have a party.

Exactly.

Because I you know and and my story people can go back and listen to it because I do tell it here and there through all the other episodes.

But for me, I want to understand because women like somebody might be hearing this going, "Oh my goodness, how did you get from that place where you're beating yourself up or you're not caring anymore or you think God is hogwash to now this vision coming in and going and waking you up because that's sometimes what you need when you have a hard-headed, stubborn CPTSD like in so much pain in survival mode.

That kind of wake up of like, okay, this ain't about you. it like wake up and realize that if you're claiming my name that you need to figure out who I am to you. It's not about religion. How this is this is the question I really want to ask you.

What helped you separate harmful religious messaging from a healthier life-giving understanding of God? Because so many of us in different denomination and and this is what I've learned in five years of having my own private practice as a counselor who loves Jesus. Because people were like, "Oh, you're a Christian counselor."

And then they come in with their own denomination,

right?

Or their own religion. Because I work with non Christians as well. And I asked the question, why do you believe the way you do? And how is it now healthy for you? Because that's the difference I really feel is the relationship or the religion,

right? And the Holy Spirit. So, so another thing that I learned, so I got into a healthy church. Um after my first marriage fell apart, I ran into some some friends at a grocery store and they were people that I had gone to church with before.

Um and they said, "You've got to come with us to this new church. It is it's a little um it'll be a lot different for you. I grew up Church of Christ." And um and so they said and they did too, the people that I ran into at the grocery store and we went to a Church of Christ together.

And um and so they said, "It's going to be a lot different, but you've got to come. We know you and you you've got to come." So I did. And I It's a non-denominational evangelical church that was kind of a little Baptisty, a little Pentecostally, a but but just scripture.

It was, you know, it was the first time I ever heard about the Holy Spirit. And so, um, it was the first time I had ever heard about grace. And God, I mean, Jesus left and he said, "I'm going to I'm going to prepare a place for you and I'm sending you this helper."

And I'm like, "Wait, what about a helper?" And I first learned, "Oh my goodness, the Holy Spirit is how I'm going to be able to function." And and so I had to learn about the Holy Spirit because I'd never learned about the Holy Spirit.

And and God and Jesus are like, "You can't do this alone.

You cannot do this thing life alone. You are going to fail over and over and but I'm going to give you a helper." And so learning about the Holy Spirit, surrendering to the Holy Spirit, being in a church, a healthy church that taught me about grace.

And for the first it years later, I became really good friends with the pastors and they um they joke they said, "Robin," because I would go to church and I'm telling you, I could I would just sit there and cry the whole church service.

I just the Holy Spirit was was just loving on me, right? I mean, it was I was just sitting there receiving so much grace, so much love. And I

can we talk can we talk about that a little bit, Robin? Because um a lot um I would think I have half Christians and non-Christians that listen. So, I have like all different walks of life that listen. To me, I I want them to understand because you keep saying healthy church.

I know what that means because I have seen some stuff in my church because with you know I went into after being raised Catholic and with new age and sanoria that's a whole and then going into a Protestant church for a while then seeing stuff and and then I saw healthy at times and then I saw not healthy at times.

Can you please explain what you mean by a healthy church?

Sure. Um and this is Robin's this is my personal definition of a healthy church. Um, and I don't, first of all, I like to say I do not believe in perfect churches. Um, there is not a church out there that I am gonna anybody is going to go to that is going to be perfect because churches are just organizations that are made up of flawed people that are going to disappoint you.

So when I say a healthy church, just like a healthy family, that does not mean perfect. It just means healthy. So that I just want to say that. But to me, a healthy church is a church that is actually teaching you and practicing what the Bible says.

Exactly what the Bible says, what the whole Bible says, not what parts and pieces of the Bible say, and not manipulating scripture to their agenda.

So to me,

that is what a healthy church is. a healthy church and and it's where you go to be fed. It's it's where you go to learn, you go to be uplifted, you go to learn, and then you go do, you know, I view church relationship too as a 50/50.

Like, um, one thing I did love about growing up in the Church of Christ, and I really do value it, and it became part of who I am,

is because of how much they focused on how hard you work. Um, I don't believe that you go to church and you just sit in the pew and you don't give, right? You

you give your time, you give your resources, you are there like you're involved, right? You can't also just be shows up, right? It's not all about taking about

Yeah.

It's about community,

being a family providing a community

getting integrated. But the healthy part

I guess what I've seen and because me I work with a lot of deconstructors or people that are disentangling in their faith or that come out of abuse. Um

a healthy church because a lot of like you said like you start giving up. You start looking and going all churches are like this or all men are like this or all this and that's black and white thinking. That's a cognitive distortion. It is understanding that what's the accountability of the leadership because that's where sexual um abuse ends up happening.

I'm telling you I've seen it left and right every denomination I

right now my mind

which blows my mind that for decades it was the Catholic Church being brought up and now it's the Protestant church now is being cleaned out. So it's both to me it's like God finally not finally but cleaning house because

he's preparing for Jesus you know

his bride

his bride we the church is his bride

so if we are God's bride

and we have sexual you know fil perversion yeah filth it's perversion um and he's going to clean that bride I mean that he is going to clean house cuz he deserves better than that, right? When he returns, he's not coming back for a bunch of nasty sexual fil.

Hopefully, he'll deal with all that. That's the thing. So, to me, and that's the part I thank God I'm not God, right? I I've learned I I I' have to just say, and that's why I also say u I don't believe there's a such thing as a perfect church.

No, not at all. And I um but I do agree with you around the accountability and you know people get offended and so you have and I will tell you even in this great church that I loved and I spent 20 years and we've we grew from 200 people to 10,000 people or even more.

I don't know how many it's up to now. But um you know it's not perfect and and I'm not perfect and I would get offended at things you know and I would have to but as I grew and matured as a Christian and the Holy Spirit would would nudge me and say hey Robin this is you like you're operating from a place of offense right now and that's not them that's you being offended and you need to grow up sweetheart like you know and um

and so that's I just live Now whether it's church people, whether it's um business people, whether it's family members,

you know, I just I with all the healing, the postabortion healing journey that I started

Yeah.

eight, nine years ago,

okay,

that is what has rocked my world. And um and and so I think the Lord reveals things to you when you're ready. you know, he's such a gracious, loving, kind father

that if he would have tried to work on me with this

30 years ago,

yeah, you were ready.

I couldn't have handled all this, right?

Um, but the way that he just slowly has peeled back the onion, showing me, you know, I didn't know I was sexually abused when I was four and and I had to get through the abortion healing part first. I had to get through all the abuse and trauma in my childhood.

And then the Lord has shown me the abuse. Um and and that's when when that all got healed, that's when I can say I am actually set free. I am 100% set free. I live in total grace and freedom. And I I the way that I look at other people is so different because now I look at people,

you know, if I see a woman that's operating in her dumpster fire where I would have in the past had a very judgmental tone and spirit toward her. Now today, I have a very compassionate spirit toward her where I just want to go hug her and say, "What's going on, sweetie?

Tell me where's your past?" In fact, one of my pastor friends, um, she was talking about somebody that she was counseling and ministering to, and she said, "You know, this woman, she just can't get her life together. She is having an affair. Her husband forgave her.

Now she's having another affair." And I told her, I said, "Go ask her when she had her abortion."

Oo. Or sexual abuse.

Or sexual abuse.

Yeah. And

Well, and here's the thing. Abortion and sexual abuse

Yeah.

are so closely coupled. um the women that I uh I mean we've done hundreds of these retreats now and so it's just um it's

well what retreats are you talking about? Why don't you tell me about them?

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a retreat um the curriculum is called Rachel's Vineyard and it was actually written by a woman named Teresa Burke and she was Catholic and she wrote and you know Catholicism is one of the religions that's so pro-life, thank God.

Um but she wrote

in one of the beginning remember that before Martin Luther came and deconstructed

well so so this woman but she kind of fell away from the Catholic she she kind of fell away from the Catholic church but she felt like that this she's a writer she's a curriculum person and she writes this curriculum about abortion healing and she gave out the curriculum to like 12 different denominations ations.

Wow.

And she said, "Look, I'm not a theologian. I'm a revi I'm a what did you reformed Catholic? Um, and I don't know if everything that I have written here is theologically sound, but I would like for all of y'all to pressure test it with scripture, but I really feel like this was a Holy Spirit thing."

And this was a long time ago. when she wrote this and she got back all of the manuscripts and not one denomination made one edit to her curriculum.

Wow. So this is what you use in this in these uh retreats.

And so the that this is the curriculum that we use in these retreats and it's living scripture. It's scripture and its activities

and and what what I would say is you you deal with the abortion, you deal with your story. Um, and it really, you know, I thought my sin, I thought my unforgivable, un imaginable sin were the abortions.

And they were, but not not unlovable, not unforgivable. God can forgive everything. But but that those were my things, right? For 30 years, I wrote every begging for forgiveness for the for 30 years. Um, but the way that this curriculum walks you through, it really shifts your mindset and it helps you see that the abortion was almost like the final act.

Um, that but all the trauma that had led up to it and this weekend just slowly peels it back and allows you to see it and the Holy Spirit I mean the this is the Holy Spirit guides and directs these retreats. And so once I got healed, that's that is the thing that I just I'm so passionate that I always knew about forgiveness.

I I always knew, you know, ask the Lord to forgive you, the Lord will forgive you. I knew about forgiveness. I didn't know the difference between forgiveness and healing.

And healing means the scar is not there. I mean, it is healed. It it is like it never happened. He can. And so operating like that is where

I just want that for everybody. I just want that feeling for everybody because the shame, the guilt, the condemnation.

Yeah.

It is gone.

That is why Jesus came. Like people don't understand that like when when you're like with perfection. Let's go there though with the perfectionism because that is something that I that I work with as well, right? It's like high achieving women unknownly using ambition as a way to outrun unresolved pain, right?

Because we talked about that. But a lot of guilt and shame comes along that has been put due to personal dumpster fires, due to I would say, you know, things that have been done to us, right? Things that we chose to do. And then we forget like and that's why when they're like this perfectionism, perfectionism, perfectionism, like how do you help women pursue their leadership skills and everything when they might be acting in that space and or parts of them?

I call them manager parts. You know, those are the How do you How do you help a woman go through that? Well, I um I'm trying to think of a tangible example. Um but I'm just thinking about the perfectionism. Um, I'm trying to think of so I'm trying to uh I'm trying to rectify in my mind

my professional hat of where I'm coaching women in my professional life and then I'm trying to think about the personal stuff and how so I'm trying to figure out which side of I'm trying to figure out which side I want to answer. So that's

Yeah. Which part's coming out, girl.

Yeah. Which part's coming out. And so I'm not I'm trying to figure

Well, I think the reason why I let me just tell you why I asked this question because um some of the women that I work with, right, and they listen um it's just they're trying to figure out like they want to live an ambitious life.

They want to be able to be in a Fortune 100 or your leadership skills or how you got there, right? But at the same time, they're like, I don't want to be a big,

you know what I mean? And I don't want, you know, and it's it's the that's why I said the word integrating in the beginning, like how do we integrate these different parts in order to be healthy? Because sometimes women and men, let me just tell you, I won't even go with the men that I see that a good o OCPD or a good narcissist man, they're freaking really good at business.

And that and we in our country, in our in our world, we accept that because guess what's really super important? Money. Right.

Right. And so for you, Robin, I'm sure when you weren't walking side by side with the Holy Spirit with the Lord, that love of money really got you to a place where you are successful.

Yeah. But you know what? Here's the deal. It wasn't a love of money. So for me, um, and and I I actually talk about this in the book because of some experience I had in the past. When my when my mom was married to my stepdad, we had abundance.

And when my mom would leave him because we had this we would leave and stay and go. I mean it we just did this dance. So when we were alone we had no money and um and so I disassociated happiness and money because when we had money our life was crazy and when we didn't have money our life was peaceful.

This is another core belief that I

processed that I didn't know I processed. And so I never had a love of money. And and even it was so funny. I remember in my career I had a boss one time who said, "It doesn't even seem like you care about the paycheck."

I said, "No, I don't. I don't care about the paycheck. I just care about winning."

Oh.

And I care about the validation that I'm good enough. I'm strong enough. I'm smart enough. I'm, you know, and and the paycheck. I I I would get a quota and I would I operated the same no matter what the number was. And so my I did not have a love of money and um and I still don't I really do not have a love of money.

Um I I do love what I I love the choices that money can give us.

Okay.

Um and I feel for those that don't have that. And so, um, because, you know, you can you can be so trapped, um, without money. And I'm just I I'm honestly grateful. I'm I thank the Lord all the time that he let me become addicted to something that actually gave me a paycheck instead of getting addicted to something that,

right?

So, so you were a workaholic instead of an alcoholic.

Workaholic. And, and corporate America was a great place for a broken little girl needing validation. And so, um, oh, they gave me so much validation. They they to, you know, they they chewed me up, spit me out. But as I was, um, going through my journey, learning, healing, rising up the corporate ladder, and I became a better version of Robin.

Um, then I started leading from a place of uh, and I think I always did, but I didn't recognize it. Um, I started leading from a place in creating a space for authenticity. And I think when you operate in authenticity, whether that's with a client or a best friend or or a colleague, um, you cannot fake authenticity.

You can't.

And every human has that little, you know, thing in the back of their brain that says, I can trust this person or I can't. That is the fight orflight

and and that is going to trigger

in the first few seconds, minutes that you meet me and and I believe that is all also around that authenticity piece. Um and people can tell in an instant if you genuinely if they can trust you and to me trust and authenticity are are you know both sides of the same coin.

Yeah. That's hard though for some that have not done the healing. So this is the difference, Robin. What I'm hearing is that you've done the hard work of looking within instead of blaming out, right? And dealing with the pain and actually sitting with it because a lot of people want to ignore it or they the workaholic, right?

Like it's like, "Oh, I'm in this place. I feel better than me being at home alone in the in the quiet because the quiet is very uncomfortable.

It's actually that's the be still and know that he's God is where you actually will start understanding what needs to be healed.

That's when the when the quiet I know I had a situation too at 47. I had a flashback coming in and I'm like what is this? And it was the weirdest, scariest, craziest thing. I and then I ended up going to EMDR which is a a therapeutic modality that helps a lot of people.

And so to me though, like

that is where you are right now, understanding like, okay, I'm here with the healed parts of me and now I'm passing the baton to the next generation to get them to understand that instead of waiting two, 20, 30, 40 years, right, until they're 50

that, hey, at 20, if you're making these decisions, um, why don't we look at these things now? I say pause. Pause. If you see yourself doing all of these things, pause. Hit pause for one second and get quiet.

That is what I because I do not ever remember that. Be still and know is my life verse. And um that is my life verse. And um because I just learned it, you know, that is now

um and the Lord will speak to you, right? But he can't do it if you're running around 100 miles an hour. You have to be still. And so what I tell folks is pause. Pause. Spend some time. Quiet down. Quiet yourself and try to listen.

Just say, "Lord, I need your help." Um, and I promise he will come through. That that is I didn't do that. Never. Right. I only went to the Lord when I was when I was like complete. I I' I'd exhausted all other possible solutions and and the Lord's like, "Hello, you should have started here.

I've been here the whole time. I've been here the whole time." And and but you know, this is it like for for the woman listening right now because we've already been here for an hour and I know I could keep going, but I I do have an appointment.

So, um, tell me, what would you want to say to a woman listening right now to encourage them?

Um, I think it depends on where she is, but but to me, um, the thing would my folks just asked me this at my book party this week. Somebody said after if what would you like to say to somebody or what do you hope somebody would get at the end of your book?

And what I really would like for people to get is that um we as women I I think need to be courageous enough to be real with each other.

And I think if we are courageous enough to be real with one another, we will find a lot more grace, love, acceptance, forgiveness, uh building each other up, and having the courage to find one person, two people, you know, find some people that you can actually take the mask off, sit down, be real with, tell them what is really going on in your life.

Um, and it needs to be somebody that isn't in the middle of a dumpster fire themselves, right? Because I do talk about how, um, you know, you can look at the history that shows, you know, if you're going through a dumpster, I bet you you're hanging out with people that are also going through a dumpster fire.

So, don't don't sit down with somebody that's going through their a divorce and try to talk to them about a healthy marriage, right?

Yeah. So, but find some women that you can sit down and be real with and um and also professional help. I mean, go get professional help. Go get into a lifegiving church. Um and then trust that that you know, I hope I I hate to even think I have this fear comes up that makes me think, oh, you're encouraging people to be real and what if they are being real with somebody that hurts them, right?

And so just I just be careful who you're real with. But I think that the courage to sit down and be real with one another is what we is what we need. This as women

and we need to know we're not alone. That is the other thing. You think you're the only when I had those abortions and I had the affair and I had sexual abuse. I thought I was the only person in the world that was so bad,

right? And then you learn that so many people have gone through the exact same thing. And knowing you're not alone. It is also one of those moments that you just kind of exhale. You just

there's somebody else out there that has been through what I've been through.

That's it.

Um I mean we're not meant to be alone.

No.

I mean if you really really think about it, even the way creation, the way God created, right? Father, Son, Holy Spirit. He's not even alone.

He's not alone.

So, it's like where you see what I mean? All right. So, how can someone work with you? What do you what do you do and and how do you work with people?

I um right now what I am doing is mostly career type corporate environment because I'm not a counselor. I'm not a certified coach. I just it's really all around um corporate

career kind of stuff.

But on my website the realorandgo.com you can click on a link that says schedule a superpower because because here's also just a nugget I would like to to leave your listeners with is um

if you know your superpower. I didn't know my superpower in the corporate environment until I was in my 40s. And I had somebody else speak it over me. My chief operating officer actually was just talking to me about all the he's like, "You know, Robin, you're great at this and this and this."

And I didn't know that I was great at that because oftenimes when you have superpowers and natural gifts, you think everybody operates like that. You don't even know that you're unique in that skill set, right? So I believe even as women um not just career women but women know your superpower.

You were born with special gifts and talents that God put in you. And when you operate in those in the corporate environment that is your unique superpower and value that you're bringing to the organization. And once you own that,

then you can start operating in it. And let me tell you, when you know your superpower, that whole comparison thing really does start to go away

because you are so comfortable and confident in what you're bringing, you really don't care what other people are bringing.

And so, um, that is what I offer for free. You can go to my website, you can schedule a 30 minute call where I just help you. If you don't know your superpower, I want to help you find and operate your superpower.

Can I ask, do you use assessments? I don't but I just learned of some. I just start asking questions about you know what do people come to you for? What is the advice that people come to you for? What is the theme? Go back and look at your performance reviews.

There will be a theme in your performance reviews that you start to see,

right? and that you can take that feedback and start developing your But I was on a coaching call the other day with a group of women that I am a part of and somebody was talking about these assessments and I thought I need to look into that.

I've done them all because I worked at alternative high schools and I had to figure out how to help my students out and stuff and and I love them because even there's a spiritual one uh shape test to know your spiritual uh gifts because you're so right on when you're in a dumpster fire or you're living on survival or you're living paycheck to paycheck and you're just like trying to just keep your head above water. starting to understand how God created you because he created each one of us.

Anyone that's listening right now, he created you for a purpose and a reason. And and if it's a a bunch of negative that you're thinking, that's not that's the world telling you that's Satan telling you stuff.

Cuz God God is good. God is love,

right, Robin? So to me, like I've done the Gallup one. I'm going to put all these links in the show notes. Your links, everybody's excellent.

Yeah. Gallup. uh the 16 personalities assessment, the shape test, the palm, the trees, tall trees assessment. I think and that's just because when someone has a new assessment, I'm like, "Oh, I'll take it just so I can learn." I think I'm like a beaver golden retriever.

I mean, like the DISC one, the Disc one, right? So,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I did that one a long time ago. I don't remember what I am. But to but to me Robin the thing is working the you would be a person to hold the accountability and that's why I think it's important to hire someone like Robin is is that okay fine you can take all these assessments but then analysis paralysis happens.

Yeah.

You analyze it you or you don't know where to start and then having accountability. This is why we're meant to be in community and not be these lone wolves.

That's right. That's right. Yeah. And I think that um it's also um when other people speak something right when when my chief operating officer said this and this it it was what he had observed right it it was my behavior that he had observed and I highly respected him

right I he was the chief operating officer that that's a big job

um and so

I put a lot of weight in what he said because I respected him and I valued him and he knew me. He had seen me operate. And so, um, man, as soon as I got a hold of that, that really also was another one of those breakthrough moments.

Yeah.

That really gave me the confidence that I needed to know that I know that I know what I can do for an organization.

I love that.

Um, and so I want other women to feel that. I want other people to heal and operate that way.

I'm with you, Robin. That's exactly what I do here in Florida. I try to.

I want to do another one. I want to talk to you more.

We'll have to do that after.

We can delay it. We can do it. You know, we can record it and you can play it later. They don't think of us. But

so tell me, okay, the name of your book is called Girl by Birth, Woman by Fire. I will put the link on the in the show notes on Amazon. And maybe maybe Robin, we can do a book club or something with your book.

I would love to. I would love to.

Let's we'll talk about that after we we hang up. Okay. I mean, after I stop recording.

All right. So, listener, I thank you so much. And this is why I end every episode with these three verses because you have to understand, you got trust in the Lord, right? And not and lean not not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight.

Guard your heart because it's the wellspring of life and renew your mind. And those three things, this is why God gave me that when in the very start of this podcast, Robin, is to end like that and to tell every human how they're fearfully and wonderfully made in the beginning.

So remember listener, sweet listener, trust in the Lord, guard your heart, and renew your mind. Bye. And now for the disclaimer to make sure you understand that you are responsible for you. The content provided on the holistic counselor podcast is for entertainment,formational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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