Growing a Faith-Based Private Practice: Wisdom from Whitney Owens of Wise Practice

welcome fearfully and wonderfully made human to the holistic counselor podcast it's me Diana and today I have the absolute honor of introducing someone whose impact on my practice and my journey has been nothing short of trans transformative back in June of 201 23 I found myself feeling a bit siloed in my private practice searching online and through podcasts for anyone out there talking about running a Christian private practice that's when I stumbled upon Whitney Owens and

her wise practice podcast I devoured every episode and by September I had the privilege of being on her show to discuss how to Market to bipac clients little did I know that after the recording stopped Whitney would ch challenge me in a way that would shift the course of my practice by the beginning of 2024 I had made significant changes and just months later she challenged me again this time to speak at her wise practice Summit

in this October in North Carolina now I'll be honest I don't particularly enjoy speaking in front of crowds but after much prayer and discussing it with my husband I said yes and here we are just weeks away from that Summit and I couldn't be more excited to have Whitney on the holistic counselor podcast she has been a mentor and inspiration and someone whose gift of exhortation has been a true blessing in my life she doesn't even

know it I'm learning right now girl for those of you who don't know wh Whitney she's a licensed professional counselor group practice owner and faith-based private practice consultant based in Savannah Georgia Whitney runs a private pay group practice with over 15 clinicians helping clients through a holistic faith-based approach to mental health but her work doesn't even stop there she consults with practice owners across the country guiding them on how to start and grow successful faith-based practices

she hosts Summits a weekly podcast and a membership Community called wise PR practice where faith-based practice owners can connect grow and learn from one another Whitney has spoken at numerous prestigious events including both the Georgia and Maryland annual professional counselor conferences and Florida's counsil counseling Association she also spoke at meet you in Kentucky a renowned renowned renowned conference for group practice owners and hosted her very own Summit for faith-based practice owners in Savannah her dedication to

helping others build strong ethical and Faith centered practices is truly inspired iring when she's not running her practice or mentoring others Whitney enjoys spending time with her husband and two daughters running reading and relaxing in the backyard I am beyond thrilled to have Whitney here today and I know you'll be blessed by the wisdom she brings to our conversation so Whitney welcome oh goodness that was so beautiful I'm gonna have to um keep this podcast like

saved on my phone for anytime I'm down and wonder ing why am I doing what I'm doing well listen that's what you know I love how you are raw you are like I'll I'll get your um emails through you know because I'm on your email list and stuff and you're just real and you put it out there and that's what we need to hear at the like that's what attracted me to your because there were a

couple of podcasts but when when you took the time out to actually reach out to me and like I said earlier before I hit record I could sense when someone is seeing another human being just to try to get something or if they're truly genuinely wanting to help in our field or not in our field oh yeah well I appreciate that and that's what I hope people experience but even in the same in the same vein

it's like you are a gift to me oh you know like like hearing those words that was a real gift in this very moment that I need and other conversations we've had and con connections we've made it's all a gift like God brings it full circle right yeah it's it's divine appointments has you know no coincidence in my book or how I see life it's divine interventions or appointments right and so um well let's talk about

counseling right because we're both therapists in two different states you know we have these licenses we um you you grew from solo all the way to group and I know like I'm now have interns I'm a qualified supervisor yeah but it's like I can't even in my brain go to a group I am still trying four years in you know after you challenged me last year it was just like whoa okay here I go I'm gonna

do it dive on in and I did and speaking I'm not I don't like it but I've already spoken locally and now with this one you know you know my nerves like I've sent you emails and stuff you got this the holy spirit's got this okay now let's move on oh well I've been watching your social media and I'm seeing you kind of you're taking those leaps forward and doing good work in the world and I

love watching it thank you thank you wnie all right so let's start with just I realized that there's quite a few people that come to me being a faith-based practice owner Christian counselor whatever you want to call it right and and I have people that are not Christians that come in and they say like hey we just want the clinical science part of you I'm like all right but I'll be praying before and after in the

name of Jesus um so tell me what is the difference between biblical counseling and faith-based counseling because so many people are confused and I see that sometimes people not debating but you know in the church and out of the church and they're like well if it's not only the Bible then it's not God and I'm still struggling with that because I worked in the secular environment most of my career this is new to me even though

I've had through the valley therapy for four years it's new but you've been in this for a long time so can you maybe explain that a little I sure can yeah this was actually a huge part of my clinical journey in school I went to a graduate program it's now called richmont Graduate University at the time it was called PSI psychological Studies Institute um and so it was a program that was clinical in nature and we

took theology courses alongside we integrated faith into some of our classes but it was a little bit of boat and Gary Collins who unfortunately is no longer with us he was one of my professors and I think of him as the grandfather of Christian Counseling wow so in his Heyday biblical counseling was it I mean I I can't remember all the names of all the big players but basically everyone was saying you got to have the

Bible in every session we've got to quote scripture to find healing for people that was the way people thought of Christian counseling was bi counseling and then when Gary and some others came along they started saying hey that's not really we can do this with clinical background and Christianity in the mix and that's kind of when they became a little bit more of a Christian Counseling perspective and so there was some like budding heads between some

of these big wigs back in the day there still is there is still is honestly yes there still is yeah and so when I think of biblical counseling I think of very strictly if it's not in the Bible then should not be used in session okay okay prayer all the things passages I think of Christian Counseling as sure you integrate that at times in appropriate ways but we still adhere to the ethics of clinical counseling we

still use clinical methods and we happen to have a faith-based background and we bring that to the table now some Christian counselors would say I bring that to the table often some others would say I don't always bring that to the table I pray for my client before and after session so when I think of Christian counselors I think of a very wide gamut I think if you're going to Market yourself as a Christian counselor you

should definitely bring Christianity into your practice in some way because that's how you've communicated who you are to your community now when we talk about I'm just going to take it a step further here when we talk about faith-based therapists okay I I use that language because Christianity unfortunately has a negative spin in our culture and we a whole Rabbit Trail about that you know and it's it's heartbreaking what Christians are these days so when I

say faith-based I do that because I'm trying to communicate that hey we are an accepting group of all faiths and all people but yeah I have a Christian background is it what I talk about every second of the day no but is it a part of my life every second of the day yes yes yeah yes and so that's what I mean when I we're talking about working with faith-based therapist being a faith-based counselor okay yeah

okay that yeah that's what I see like honestly like I guess the question because I am a bipac therapist right so we have the cultural aspect of things like big time like I think you know in our conversation which I will drop the RS from Wise in the show notes for anyone that's listening that wants to hear um Whitney and I talking about bipot clients and stuff but you know we have the real the cultural down

here in South Florida because I'm in in South Florida and that's really like a multicult cultural with a lot of Caribbean and and different backgrounds and that you know what I hear when I've had clients in the past it's like no it's a demon no you know and it it's like and it has to be only the Bible anything any other psychology and so I'm trying to get people to understand like no as a holistic person

in the way the Lord made us we are made in biology in Psychology and theology he made it all all good things come from from above and to have the right and to have that understanding and I think that's like we have these conversations down here amongst us Christian practitioners as well and it's like all right I'm a like someone went off on me one time and I'm just going because I believe in like Forest therapy

I take like what I've learned from Japanese culture or but it's not new age or religion that I'm following I know Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior am my going to force that on a human being that's coming to me as therapist and saying no you're going to hell and it's because of sin that's exactly why well we're all fall short of the glory you know and so and back to the forest therapy hugging the

tree right it's not me worshiping the tree I worship the god that created the tree but I know that it does something for the mind health like gardening like Outdoors like holistic stuff because we're so West I in this culture that we have this mindset that this is the only way to of to do Christianity what do you think of that totally I mean isn't it in nature that we find God the most oh girl preach

it now you gonna make me cry yeah yeah so I'm I'm GNA go on another little tangent here but then this how it works um you're reminding me of this Facebook post I did about a book I was reading okay and something had really impacted me me and so I'm it's Richard Roar okay he's oh yeah yeah oh man love some Richard Roar and he has totally helped me change the way I think about love acceptance

kindness you know and so there was this quote that I really liked and it really changed the way I was thinking about things so I shared it on social media immediately somebody was like this was someone I hadn't spoken to in over 20 years okay like college days he wants to comment about how bad Richard war is how I shouldn't believe that statement and you know it's it's new age I've heard that too it's new age

it's spiritual Mystics it's and we're gonna I have a question on that go ahead you know but it's it's like first of all who are you to tell me you have no Authority in my life I haven't spoken to you in 20 years and you feel the need to tell me where to find God and not find God I don't know if that's really your place but second of all why can't we just celebrate that someone

experienced something good in their life like God spoke to me if it's through Richard War if it's through hugging a tree if it's through you know having a beer with a friend however God chooses to speak we celebrate that and we don't judge it and get angry about it you know right right well it's like the the quote from Carl Young about uh whatever bothers you I'm I'm chopping it up whatever annoys you it just shows

like something inside of you that still needs to be worked through oh boy we got to find that quote that's a good one oh I have it somewhere oh it's yeah and that's the that's where some people and okay so let me just go to that question because now that I've experienced being a Christian therapist right and and putting myself out there as a counselor you know and I'm faith-based um I realized I had to really

start working Within Myself to grow closer and be biblically literate like I not that I was illiterate but to you know read things in context and understand it more and I had people from all denominations and I'm going oh my goodness from you know name it and and I had them you know from the Orthodox like Greek Orthodox people because they knew that I love Jesus all the way to Prosperity or whatever it is or you

know like they they believe you know when the feathers come down and and stuff like that I mean it's such a spectrum of denominations and that's when I started having to because I've heard about Richard war or even if you talk about the inogram I had people and I don't practice that or even the Myers Briggs I mean so people have an opinion and within the church walls and then we're sitting here wasting time doing this

to each other when there's a whole world that's hurting out there therapists or not what are we called to do as a Christian what do you think well I see myself in those people I think about I remember in college somebody played a rock song or something or a rap song on the radio and I was like turn that off that's not Christian I remember thinking I couldn't kiss before marriage you know like all these things

that were these rules and regulations to be a Christian and it totally loses sight of the very essence of Christianity yeah so why don't we for my listeners that are not Christians at all because I have a few what's that mean what do you mean gosh that's that is hard isn't it I mean as I have matured and grown and rethought my own faith I think that Christianity means Living the Life of Christ yeah simple doesn't

have to be complicated how did Christ treat people how did he love people and I think through me becoming Christlike I grow in my relationship with Christ naturally right I become more alive more full of joy full of love does that mean everything's easy in roses absolutely not in fact sometimes it's harder yes right because people aren't going to understand it they're going to judge me for it right even Christians are going to judge me for

it yeah yeah I mean nowhere in the word does Jesus say it's going to be easy nowhere does he say that um it's going to be like so much fun I mean he says you're going to be persecuted for my name's sake and and it's I don't want to scare people off but you do get a piece beyond all understanding when you focus on who he actually is and what he taught right it is simple it's

love God and love others how simple can that be but we've made it so hard due to to how I see the ego the flesh okay and so we're you know people that come in with judgment and I understand accountability like I have people because there is when we Rebel when we're full of ourselves when we're like wanting what we want when we want it and that to you know some people call that sin Rebellion sometimes

we sometimes the things that we do do cause us to stumble to a place and we end up in a hard place but it's not for us to like as a Christian I'm not going to sit there Ma I told you so well don't talk to my kids because they'll say I have said that but you were just touching on when you were younger listening to that roxa because you grew up in church can you share

a little bit of your background and and what sure yes I am from South Georgia so talk about had a tight Bible Belt going on oh yeah oh yeah um and I grew up going to church as a kid I went to the Methodist Church um as you maybe know and we can talk about this if you decide you want to there's been a huge divide over the past few years in the Methodist Church that's been

a very painful experience my husband's a minister in the Methodist Church so wow um but I grew up Methodist United Methodist proud to call myself one and um then I went to the University of Georgia and was at the campus ministry the Wesley Foundation grew a ton in my faith through that experience and then it was after that that I went to a Christian Counseling program okay what I've noticed more than ever right now are clients

and I want to talk this is where I want to see if you're seeing the same thing quite a few of my clients that come in they are late 20s or early 30s and they have been wanting to deconstruct their faith but some way keep it and I don't know about because I became a Christian when I was 29 yeah so I grew up like I grew up with Catholicism and and santaria had a baby I

don't know how else to explain it so in my home like my grandma my on my um dad's side was a Sania medium and yeah and and then Catholicism I'm going to Catholic you know church and everything did my communion all that stuff and then by the time I was probably 18 I I was like forget all of this this is all stupid but and then got into the new age horoscopes and everything for a long

time um anyway so my experience when they come in even though I'm a Christian I'm I have learned and studied I actually had to figure out like religious trauma and everything and I know because I studied Cults and stuff in the past and then I'm realizing a lot of these people were hurt and when I became a Christian that was in '95 I mean 2000 but I was married my husband in 95 who's a Southern Baptist

preachers kid what so my in-laws were very like you know North Carolina so I understand that whole mentality just from what I experienced being new in it but there's a lot of people that are coming in that are hurt and the Purity culture and what do you are you seeing that in your practice I have seen it before um I think I think I've kind of mentioned to you I don't really see as many clients as

I used to I Really actually only have five oh my Yeah well yeah and I've had them all for a very long time um so I can't say I see that in my own clinical work but I have in the past we have the um Savannah College of Art and Design here in Savannah so I do get a lot of clients who've kind of been hurt and by Church they trying to figure things out so yeah

I was just wondering if you have in your practice some of the therapists having to learn about that or go through that or you know find out about because I say they're not deconstructing if they're coming to me you're just disentangling and I try to right so there's a lot of spiritual bypassing as well you know what that is yeah what do you think about spiritual bypassing well I was going to go back hold on to

what you were talking about that question because I'm thinking about the other part some more okay um I think that some of the clients do come in to reconstruct deconstruct or untangle but I don't know I think um I think a lot of them don't and don't want to oh to no they're so hurt and angry yeah well no I mean they lack the Insight that they even need to rethink anything like like that way of

Christian thinking that they have learned their whole lives they're still ingrained in it yeah and they haven't really challenged it very much because look challenging our faith means we're challenging ourselves you know we're challenging God we're challenging how we think about things and people don't want to do that no so what do you see more in your in your group practice it's both yeah and and even within my my therapists um there's a real wide variety

like everyone everyone who works for me in the interview we say hey we get a lot of Christians that come here and they want to talk about their faith are you comfortable with that we're not hiring based on their faith okay we're hiring based on their ability to work with someone who wants to talk about faith because the truth is if we were a substance abuse practice I wouldn't want them coming here if they weren't comfortable

working with substance abuse like we get a lot of Christian clients where we are that's how it started my practice I want to make sure so but we have a real variety of therapists where they land you know conservative or liberal or how they think about the Bible and how they think about prayer and I like that yes because we know that diversity is always good whatever kind of diversity you bring to the table we want

to bring different ways to think different ways to accept different ways to love and then clients call and they say I want a strong Christian Perspective well we know who's going to give them the really strong Christian Perspective we give them the back therapist and if somebody else is like I think gosh I wish I could remember what this guy said on the phone he was like oh he said my my wife and I need therapy

we're liberal with our faith and conservative with our finances oh my God I laugh so hard I was like I love your Insight and understanding and I know the perfect therapist for you because she was that's actually how that therapist thinks about things so um yeah do you do a training with your different um therapists because to me that just like a cultural competency right that's what you're having me speak on and having to teach but

in the faith-based practice that's what something I think that should be because you can't assume because we we see the world the way we are not how it is right and so I you know I would you know you go in with say all we're all Christian counselors but like you said there might be that hardcore Presbyterian Theologian that's like no like this is it and not saying that all Presbyterians are like that you know but

and then you have the the total liberal all the way on the whole other side Christianity where and how do you do you train them do you get them to say oh you know you should know a little bit about each denomination or you see what I mean like how do you know yeah so I I don't do a ton of training with them about it I try to encourage them to let it be client L

yeah you know like let the like if a client says they want to talk about their faith you know invite them into the room ask them clarifying questions you know how can you use your faith to help you in where you're at but we don't do a lot of specific training on it and again like my therapists come from all different types of backgrounds I got some that barely go to church at all you know and

I've got other ones that are like oh my gosh I can't live without you know being at church on Wednesday nights Sunday mornings and you so it's kind of that variety so I try I haven't really pushed that part all that much um but it's certainly something that we welcome into the room and sometimes at staff meetings we'll incorporate prayer we'll talk about our faith um you know I recently purchased a building and that I saw

that oh it's been a faith journey and I have you know we have definitely prayed and talked about that you know and I share that story with them and and I do think of my team and I think this is something that as a leader you have to figure out where you're at with it but I think of my team as kind of a Ministry for me to them okay um I do think you can get

into a hairy situation when you think of that too much and then you're hiring therapists that you're trying to help instead of them helping clients like you got to make sure that your therapist is with it enough and understands faith and all these things to be able to care for clients so there is kind of that part of it but yeah I actually really enjoy working with therapists in my practice that are really thinking about things

and I can kind of walk them through it or hey let's let's talk about what is you know a gay couple comes into your room how does that make you think about your faith how does that challenge you how do you express God's love like I really enjoy when they come to me with those questions because we can really explore those together and we're all going to have a different way that we think about it you

know oh for sure yeah I mean that's that's a struggle that's a real struggle coming in especially like where I'm from uh you know automatically I was at a community Fair uh just last week and um someone was bringing one of my volunteers with gave a a handout to a guy and it was a teenager earning volunteer hours and the guy turned around and saw the word Christian and he he poor girl like this was her

first time like volunteering in a community fair in the public like that and he's turned around he was like I lost my wife to the church and went off and the girl just she was she froze because she's never had any adult like go at her like that she's just a sweet girl and she came over and I felt it and I was like you know how do you handle people like that that's that's something I

would like to know Whitney because you will have I don't know I mean maybe not I don't know the clients and how thorough like I don't know how you bring in clients but I know there's clients that come in and they're angry or even when I was in the secular world and they might have saw my cross and they would go off how do you handle something something like that I think this goes back to your

quote earlier with Carl Young about you know you're you got to do your own work and people who come at us like that we have to remember they're coming at us because of their pain yeah how do I how do I love this person even when they act this way oh it's so hard right yeah so it also shows that we've got to do our own work you know so that we can bring that acceptance and

love because if I haven't done that that I'm going to come at them so angry and yell right back at them right yeah I think it depends on the personality and stuff some people will just you know freeze run you know flight fight Freeze or fall when something like that happens and and I had to tell her I'm like this is this is you're putting out your faith like you're in the Public Square it's not a

Christian event I you know I and this was a Learning lesson and I'm glad I was there to help her but I want to go back to spiritual bypassing because that's something I have seen a lot within uh some of the families I've worked with in the church um and and a lot with the bipot community spiritual bassing is like how I see it is when someone's like I feel depressed or I am depressed or sad

and and we have to like balance that Whitney right because our culture now it's like they don't want to understand sadness like no you're not clinically depressed there are clinical things that we have to do as therapists right but every you know because of Tik Tock and everything it's like I feel a little sad oh I have depression I have anxiety I have OCD I have this but spiritual bypassing I've seen is okay well you need

to pray it like you could pray it away or or you only need Jesus you only need Jesus you only need Jesus which honestly if it wasn't for my faith in Christ I would not be in a healthy place but when you're telling a young person or that's all you're known and you're scared and you're dealing with all these mental issues or mental illness and spiritual bypassing keeps attacking you how do you deal with that in

your practice or in the past yeah you mean what would I tell the therapist if I saw him doing that or like how do I deal with it if it's happening to me what do you mean it's yeah how do you recognize it in your practice in your own practice and what strategies do you use to address it with clients so it's like if you saw a therapist the ones that might be really strong which is

fine it's just saying like oh you need to reach your Bible more or that's like one of the things that they use to and it's it's like as a therapist you know we're licensed clinical people and at the same time we're trying to balance this oh yeah well I'm an indag one so I go to the rules you know the ethics like I definitely go back to ethics um and in fact I had a conversation with

one of my employees not too long ago and I finally was like look this is what the ethics say on this issue I know it's not in line with what you believe but it's not for you to give that to your client it's for you to follow the ethics of what we're in you know and look you work for me so you better follow the ethics and the liabilities because this is what we're looking at um

but yeah I think it's very common in the South to do that I mean that's kind of how I think of biblical counseling I mean it's let's pull out the Bible and let's say it's the answer all the time and Let's ignore this other thing oh but the true healing is when we love the whole person right I mean that is where the goodness is and we can bring Christianity and the Bible into that at the

exact same time we don't have to let go of that part right I think that's what people feel like like if I go into and learning Freud or learning these other humans that have created stuff right but I and and I tell it's like do doctors like I'm like you go to a doctor right medical doctor yes okay do these doctors bring out the Bible and say okay you just don't have enough prayer yeah and that's

why you're sick yeah and I'll say with our therapists when we talk about the faith-based perspective in the interview like is this something you're comfortable with if they're strong Christian presence they're like oh yeah I love Jesus which is great we do kind of go a little deeper with them like what would you do if a client came in and how would you discuss this and this so I'm trying to recognize spiritual bypass potentially that this

could be happening um so I truly I really don't see it a lot with my therapists though they're very they're they're very clinical in nature with an integration when appropriate right I I can't say I would think any of them would be like the Bible is it and that's you know we're not going to pay attention to your bipolar disorder like I I have not seen that at my practice but I can definitely tell you I

heard those stories from clients when they come in to see us you know and um I had a pastor in town she was so happy when she found our practice because she was like all these other practices are you know that call themselves Christian practices are you know leaning a little bit more towards the biblical View and I needed a place where I could refer clients where they get the clinical work with the faith compon so

that's kind of how we're different and unique in our area Okay I I think it's because clinically you know the way we're trained it is the ethics and you said you pull out your ethics I I want to just for those that are looking listening and wanting they might be therapist thinking that they want to start a group practice and everything what do you mean by that you have everything in order in place so you have

bylaw I mean like not bylaws but like a book that they have to sign and ah can you talk about that a little bit more oh my therapist okay well the code of ethics is through the American Counseling Association and so there is a some great books we have them so when things come up like dual relationships that's when you shouldn't see a client a setting outside of the therapy room or maybe there's something going on

with bartering like we don't barter with our clients you know there's so many rules to protect the client so we call those our ethics as therapists um so for example if I was at a party and a client came up to me and told me they were suicidal or not not a client a person sorry they suicidal or something like that serious like because they told me I am liable for caring for that person because I'm

a licensed professional counselor in this Georgia so that's an ethical thing do I think I'm going to be put in jail if this person goes and hurts themselves probably not but it is part of my ethics and my law like my license on the line yes you know right those are things what we mean when we say ethics um social workers have their own book of Ethics everybody has their own book of Ethics um we have

God here by the American Counseling Association one that's wonderful and now for your group practice do you have another oh my gosh what do they call when you start you know a business like uh just a booklet of like everything protocols and everything yes thank you oh my sorry I have a handbook when they get trained and they sign it and then we have a bunch of policies on our Google Drive that we review with them

and they have to read them um we don't make them sign every single one of them but yeah they're supposed to follow all those policies okay all right um so the role of faith in therapy right and integrating your faith and understanding it and coming in with it it is something that so say do you ask your clients or back when you were practicing with more clients do you ask them if they want prayer or not

yep so in the very first session just like every section of our intake there's a section that says spirituality and it says do you consider yourself a spiritual person yes or no if yes you know what is your faith background like what do you adhere to do you have like a Creed or theology that you adhere to um so people could put lots of different things there um and then below that it'll say do you have

an organization that you attend that's faith-based you know and that's usually when most of our clients put their Church there so when we're going through the intake we get to that part and we you know just like you would ask more about other areas you know You' say tell me more about your faith looks like that's an important part of your life or looks like it's not or did you grow up in church you know kind

of those kind of questions and if they talk as if it's a strong part of their lives I'll stop and say okay um you know we do offer a faith-based perspective here in your therapy is that something you would like to do a lot of times they're very happy about that and then I'll say okay you know sometimes that incorporates prayer or scripture or different components of the faith is that something that you're open to usually

they're happy to say yes so when appropriate I will bring that into the session right did you have a question there no no no that makes sense um yes so I'd bring them into i' bring it into the session and you know might like maybe they share something really stressful or awful going on in their life I might say hey I want you to know that I'm praying for you you know or what can I pray

for for you for that right now I could do a whole continuing education on what I think about prayer and the y room I mean I I don't think it's the best I think it can really cause some issues with some of your clients um especially the power Dynamic it kind of makes it feel like you're pushing prayer on your clients you gotta be really careful about that so I usually don't pray with my clients unless

I have a very solid relationship I know how they feel about things you know and I feel like it's appropriate because really everything we do is about the client not about us that's right okay can you let's uh can you explain that a little bit more because I want PE The Listener to understand us us as Christian counselors or Christian therapists or faith-based therapists right because there's there's therapists out there that are they don't have anything

about Christianity but they are Christians right so you have those that are therapists but and are Christians but they don't go out there saying hey I'm a Christian counselor right and then you have those like me my on my website you see holistic Christian you know and um oh I lost my train of thought I'm so sorry but it's it's a about um trying to balance that because you're right the the power the power inside that

how do you can you explain that a little more what do you mean like if you pushing prayer yeah when I was in graduate school in one of our classes when well when I first went to graduate school I thought I was going to save everybody I was going to be a therapist every client was going to find Jesus and one of my classmates said I totally remember this guy he raised his hand and he said

look Jesus didn't push his faith on anybody Jesus was a gentleman I mean I guess one time he turned the tables and yelled at everybody but in general he did not force people to anything he invited people right and I think that is a really great way for us to think about counseling and to think about faith I invite people to explore lots of things their childhood wounds their current relationships their stressors I don't force it

and when I sense that from my clients I back away unless it's someone I've had for a long time and I really feel like oh I really need to push into this but in general this is their therapy for them to get what they need out of it not for me to say I made you accomplish these goals because at the very beginning I came into every session boy I'm tell you I'm I'm Type A let's

we had a plan let me outline the session in advance you accomplish these that was making it all about me me and it's about them and how can I love them and sit with them and be with them I think the most healing part of therapy is the relationship yes right I can be I can bring CBT EMDR you know ifs whatever I I could go get trained and bring all that in but I think when

we can truly love our clients and Speak Life into them that is where the transformation happens right oh I agree that unconditional positive regard call Rogers right that's right it's like that true so in your practice well let's talk about the wise practice Summit right I want to know a little bit more about it I kind of know but I want to know why why' you start it because I love getting faith-based practice owners together okay

it is a lonely world that we have oh yeah yeah and when we're together we're better yeah it's beautiful and the other part of it is kind of these things we're talking about today it's changing the way we think about faith in the therapy room you know that it doesn't have to be a certain way that we can change the way we think and that it can be all inclusive and all loving at the same time

and be Christian so those are kind of my two uh missions you know within within work that I do is to empower faith-based practice owners have successful practices because you know what Diana when you have a successful practice more of Christ's love is in the world yeah and if I can Empower you to do that I can't do anything better yeah I mean that is that is gold yeah for real so so when we all come

together for two and a half days W God shows up right I mean when we meet together God shows up so we're all going to meet together and all these cool ideas are going to come and you're going to meet people you've never met before and you're going to come away a changed person and it is amazing now I'll tell you it is hard to do this I'm exhausted it's overwhelming and I walk away and I'm

like what am I doing let me just tell you the money I know it looks like a lot of money it's not a lot of money okay I can make a lot more money doing a lot of other things just seeing clients all year long for the amount of time I put in but when I look look at what God does through the experience and through the relationships you can there's no money for that I mean

it's it's amazing so that is why we do what we do and that's why the summit exists um but the whole Community itself it's about different touch points for people to get in on the community so some people are going to want to go to a live event some people are not some people are going to want to meet online every week some people are going to want to come to a retreat so I also think

it's important that we offer different outlets for people to experience community and to experience like in with other practice owners what year is this for the summit yeah so technically I know it sounds like I know what I'm doing um this is the second year wow I technically did one when I worked for practice the practice which was Prior that was when I did my first conference so technically I did that through practice practice so the

wise practice Summit the first one was really last year really yeah I didn't know that I know it seems like I know what I'm doing done it uh well listen we have to remember as Believers right and Disciples of Christ that when in our weakness we are strong and it's not about our ego or flesh it is about the spirit because if you're pointing to Christ in everything you do you're just a vessel I'm just a

vessel we're both right here this this podcast is a vessel I hope that that makes people understand that there's hope that there's others that there's people that went ahead of you because you know you're ahead of me in this practice I don't I don't know what I was doing you're right I was lonely like I think I I shared that with you it was like all right I'm siloed in this office now that I'm not at

the high school anymore I'm seeing clients it's heavy like we are in one of the times in history that mental health is finally being spoken about and now we're trying to figure out The Balancing Act of it all and still teach people about Christ's love through our actions not our words it's our actions so you know I I I know quite a few like interns and people that are just like still working Community Mental Health which

we need them there but they're like how did you start where did you start like what do you do how do you you know because it's fear false evidence appearing real right what would you say to those listeners that are like right there wanting to start their own practice or um because your private pay all of all of your right yeah girl how okay see that blows a lot of us away like to me like I

get it now because I've been in it for a little bit but I also thank God had side gigs because I had another career right yeah not just as a therapist but a lot of these therapists they're getting paid you know Headway whatever all the and they're getting paid half of what they should be getting and insurance companies clawbacks all these things and and now they're wanting to start their own PRI you know they don't teach

just that in school finances and private practice skills or anything like that what would you say to them yeah sadly they get trained to have an insurance model so that's why they can't think of anything else right yeah um I would say when I started my practice A lot of it was stepping out in faith not knowing what I was doing it's okay to not know what you're doing I would encourage you to talk to other

practice owners that have done it but do not only do what they do because look they're figuring it out too got a lot of people who come to me for Consulting and they say oh but this person down the street gave me this paperwork I'm like they don't know what they're doing you know uh I would encourage you to find someone's Community to be a part of of course I'd love you to be a part of

mine you know and if you are a person that considers Christianity part of your life and also a practice owner was practice is a place for you but there are lots of great consultants and communities out there find one that fits your need and learn as much as you can I used to listen to podcasts all the time almost every day and I would say hey I'm GNA take something from this podcast and put it into

my practice and that is a lot of how I started wow but at the same time you start losing that accountability there's no one who knows what you're doing or you can't ask questions you know it can't be tailored to you um I know people think it's expensive to invest in Consulting but I think it's totally worth it I've invested in years of it and it's part of the reason why I'm successful you know because I've

had a lot of people help me through the process I still attend a mastermind group every single week and I just started another Consulting package with somebody because I need help too we all do yes we do we all yeah I agree you there's people ahead of us and there's people behind us and in our well to me how I see it as a Christian isn't it the whole barnabus and you know like having someone ahead

and someone behind you so you can grow together and learn because we're meant to be in community right um do you have any books or resources that can like out top of your head that helped you when you first started doing this um yeah I do really like the profit First Financial model okay um I waited way too long to use it I would recommend profit first for therapist is uh Julia SS with green o accouny

don't worry Diana you're going to meet her in a few weeks she'll probably have some books for you she's one of the speakers um that's a really great book um that whole method is based on Mike mallwitz and his work um for group practice owners Mike mallwitz also has another book um fix this next is good but I'm thinking about Clockwork and it's about um making things run more smoothly in your life and in practice that

you're not working so much I recently just started um I'm actually listening to this book called slow productivity okay go with Kane might be the last name but I just started it it is really good about just how we function in the world and we think we're more productive if we're doing more things but it actually research shows that that's not the case so that's another book I'd recommend but yeah I I would say podcasts I'm

not a huge reader when it comes to business I do a lot of podcasts I usually Reserve reading for fun yeah to chill to relax like 10 pages a day yeah that's right so that's that's what I'm usually reading um so yeah that's kind of how fun all right so besides your podcast was there any other podcasts that actually helped you yep um I listen to the practice of therapy that's Gordon Brewer oh yes yes Gordon

yeah I was on his on his podcast too yes I um I really this is not a therapist podcast but the gold digger podcast okay it's Jenna Kutcher she is I mean one of my tops I really enjoy listening to her podcast um I do I actually listen to a lot of podcasts that are not business related though really more faith related but I I find these to be really helpful because my faith is a part

of my business so I'll be listening to it it'll really challenge me in the way that I think about something I'm doing in my business yes me too like the SEO people uh I forgot their name you know there's SEO that's just on SEO then I just listen about blogging and only on blogging and then how to be a better podcaster and then the there's therapy ones out there that are not Christians at all you know

Christian based but you get the clinical stuff so yes yes definit I love the modern therapist podcast as well oh okay I don't know if I know that one k i mean that's um Katie renoi and Kirk wilham okay yeah it's a little more clinical in nature they do some cuu stuff I really have enjoyed their show as well yeah that's like Doc Snipes you know who doc Snipes is all all CEUs her stuff is great

I love because it is like if I want to learn about one subject only you know and this is for the I mean you know and I actually give it to clients too to listen to because like clients need to do their work between sessions right if they really want to or you know get the help they have to continue to do the work on their own um so so you know we're we're wrapping up now

and I just want to know how what do you see for yourself in the next five years H well I can tell you what I want to see for myself okay or what you're praying about because remember the Lord established the steps yes um I definitely want my second location for therapy practice you know that I'm opening up in the new year that's been a huge step of Faith I've never bought a commercial building or any

of that so to see that be successful and to see more people find healing and love love oh that'd be so great um I'd like to see my husband's Church grow oh nice he's a pastor of a very small Church um and I really am passionate about the United Methodist Church so I really want it to be successful so I'd love to see the Methodist Church come back strong after this break we've had um I would

love to continue to host Summits and for them to grow over time um and I would definitely want to grow the Consulting business um with more structure that I have more help so we can help more faith-based practice owners it would really just be a hub of community so I just there's so much power in community um everyone doesn't have to do one-on-one consulting or anything like that even though I love working with people I think

that that Community aspect is really important to me the Consulting business is a baby it's only two and a half years old so you can think about your own private practice I have to like compare it to that a lot like hey I didn't even hire anyone in my private practice till I was you know four years in or to think about it something like that I hired Consultants this year like you know it's it's still

new and it's still in those growing pains and learning and I'm hoping that by the time I'm five years from now it's going to be a little bit more smooth you know I'm a little less involved but I can still be involved as much as I want to and I can love it like my group practices right I love that I love that well wise practice Summit will be October 2nd through the 5th correct and third

through the 5ifth the third through the 5ifth I think it's because I'm showing up on the second at the third through the 5ifth um in Charlotte so do you have any tickets left I have three you have three left I don't know when this is coming out I have to talk to my producer my my editor I don't know if it's going to come out before or after but do you plan on doing this again next

year so those that are listening now yes I actually signed the contract yesterday and it's not in Florida is it I can't tell you to you're gonna find out on October 3 I love it I love it all right but you can find out about the wise practice Summit on her website because you have two different webs where where can people find you wise practice consulting.com okay and that's where I I will put that in the

show notes so any final words before we end this conversation no this has just been a pleasure you know and I've really enjoyed it and think that if you're looking for a community find one find one that can challenge you can strengthen you can change you and step out in faith because when we do that God does some big stuff oh he does I mean a year AG I I was just thinking a whole year ago

where I was and now where I'm at and I'm just like all right Lord because he's you know I haven't said anything out in the public either but things are shifting for next year and I have a prayer board I don't do a vision board I do a prayer board uhuh every year and so I used to do the magazines but it's hard to find magazines nowadays that's how old I am all right Winnie I am

looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks I'm going to bump you up on my prayer list because I know what you're doing I've done events down here for different reasons and it's a lot on your shoulder so thank you for doing that for us um so listener don't forget to trust in the Lord guard your heart and renew your mind bye and now for the disclaimer to make sure you understand that you are

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