Spiritual First Aid: Finding Hope and Practical Support in Crisis

Welcome to the Holistic Counseling podcast. It's me, Diana, from Through the Valley Therapy. Today, I'm excited to dive into a concept that caught my eye recently, spiritual first aid. I was intrigued enough to write a blog post about it, and that curiosity led me to reach out directly to one of the minds behind it.

Joining us is Jamie Aten, PhD, the co-founder of Spiritual First Aid and a true leader in disaster response and trauma care. Dr. Aten is not only the founder and co-director of the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, where he holds the Blanchard Chair of Human Humanitarian and Disaster Leadership, but he's also the co-coordinator of their trauma certificate program.

His resilience is personal. He's a Hurricane Katrina and a late-stage early-onset cancer survivor, which has shaped his work as a trauma psychologist and humanitarian. With over nine books, more than 150 scholarly publications, and research funding exceedingly $7 million, Dr. Aten's work has been published and cited in major outlets like The New York Times, CNN, Christianity Today, and many others.

He's a recipient of the FEMA Community Preparedness Champion Award from the White House, and has been honored by the American Psychological Association for his contributions to the psychology of religion and spirituality. He's also a co-author and co-host of the Better Samaritan podcast and column.

In our conversation today, we'll dive deep into the heart of spiritual first aid, exploring how faith and mental health care intersect, particularly in times of crisis. Jamie, thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to our conversation today.

All right, so we're going to just dive right in and start with like, can you just share a bit about who you are and what brought you to the work? I mean, I just shared a little bit, but, you know, trauma and disaster support, that's some heavy stuff.

Yeah, that that was actually never anything I thought I was going to set out to study. So, I had finished up grad school, moved from the Chicago area down to South Mississippi just 6 days before Hurricane Katrina struck our community.

So, I actually thought I was going to go to South Mississippi to study rural mental health disparities and, how to collaborate with the church, and then next thing I know, one of the worst natural disasters ever hit the US hits our community, and within a few weeks, like, people that know me aren't surprised by this, but within a few weeks, I had a research team up and going, and we were going door-to-door trying to understand how

things were people were being impacted, and then not only how did they being impacted, but how can we use that data to turn it into resources to actually help the church and help others who are going through such a tragic event.

So, that really changed the entire trajectory of my career. Yeah, and so, why the church? Well, for me, there's not any other organization out there that's better equipped to care in these sorts of situations that you've got diverse groups of people coming together.

You've got people coming together around a shared faith and mission and values, and are uniquely positioned within their communities to provide care. And so, early on in my career, I really focused a lot on disasters, but over time, it kind of came back to, the mental health side of who I am.

And so, with Spiritual First Aid, we've been able to take some of those same lessons learned in some of the hardest places literally around the world where these things have happened, but now making it to help others with everything from mild stress to mass trauma.

Oh, wow. Okay. So, honestly, I'm going to address religious trauma right now, because that's something that I have seen. I've had clients that come to me that, you know, they feel like they've been spiritually abused, religious trauma. There's actually a whole, I'm sure you've heard it, like, whole deconstruction exvangelical kind of thing going on, and people that even when I say like I'm a Christian, automatically some people get offended.

And so, it is it's a really hard place for those that are believers, we're wanting to help. I know I want to help. I, you know, sometimes I'm like, you're judging me like you think I'm judging you because I'm a Christian, and I want you to understand that's that's politics, identity politics, all this other stuff, and I'm trying to really live by what Jesus called us to do, right?

And so, so, so if many feel hurt or unsupported by their faith faith communities, and and they, you know, how does Spiritual First Aid approach that kind of faith-centered support for those feeling isolated or hurt by religious spaces?

Yeah, and I appreciate you bringing that up, because that's such an important topic and something that I know I'm seeing on a regular basis as well, and, you know, we have within Spiritual First Aid, there's over 40,000 people that are part of our Spiritual First Aid community, that's part of our weekly email list, and we regularly hear from others who are hurting in the same way that you described.

And for Spiritual First Aid, one of the things that we really emphasize is the importance and the power of positive spiritual care and support to others. That when people are hurting, they need others to come alongside them and to provide that care. And you notice I said specifically the positive spiritual support.

And the reason for that is that we've done a lot of studies, everything from after mass shootings to disasters to cancer survivors, about how powerful and healing it can really be just to have somebody who shows up in the moment and is present with you.

And the reason why I highlighted that positive was, Diana, I don't know what your experience was like, but in the church I grew up in for a while, we had a gossip chain, I mean, a prayer chain. Oh my gosh. Right? Okay, so maybe yeah, you can relate to that, right?

Like, so so that is the opposite of what I mean of positive spiritual support. But unfortunately, sometimes that is the support that we've provided others in the church, and like you said, when we do that, it causes harm.

And I know it's not just, you know, kind of my quip here, but also that it can be a lot more serious, that it could be being isolated within the community or totally rejected or, you know, I heard things like after Hurricane Katrina, that well, the people who left didn't have enough faith.

And I just remember thinking, oh my goodness, that is not a message of Christ in that time. And boy, that's a whole 'nother podcast episode. Yeah, well, spiritual bypassing is a real thing. I've written about it a couple of times and talked with other, you know, so people are like, what is that?

Like, I've talked to people in the church, and they're like, what do you mean spiritual bypassing? And I'm like, well, when someone's hurting, that's the last thing that they need to hear, right? Is like, you need to you didn't pray enough, or what did you do for God to do this to you?

I'm like, oh my I was raised Catholic, and my grandma was a Santa Maria medium. So, I had some stuff happening in my background, you know, and then I I went off the deep end for a while and studied world religions and tried, you know, new age and horse I I think I did it all, and then finally, Jesus, you know, is my Lord and Savior.

Like, I don't know how else to explain it, and that's what keeps me focused, studied, and trying to do my very best as a human being. But anyway, back to Spiritual First Aid and this population, like, like, you know, maybe can you introduce us to Spiritual First Aid of like, what sets it apart from other support methods?

Yeah, there's really kind of three or things that set Spiritual First Aid apart from other approaches out there. One is that it's biblically informed. So, everything that we do is drawn from scripture, it's inspired by scripture. Every single helping skill that we teach, like, the steps along the way, is scripture-based.

And then another key part is that it's evidence-informed. So, you had mentioned some earlier, you know, about some of my background that, you know, I had a friend recently that joked that maybe you've read Gary Chapman's Five Love Languages book. Yeah. And he said, well, Jamie, you know, when I think about you, there's a chapter missing.

There needs to be one on research. So, that's my that that should be the sixth love language. So, I really, and I'm one of the few people to get excited about research, but I love research. And the reason is that I want to make sure the things that we're teaching in Spiritual First Aid are actually evidence-based, that we're not just making this stuff up, that we're not just kind of pulling from a hat and guessing what's going to work.

Everything that we're teaching, we've actually studied. So, based on over 50 different studies, and there's also a new outcome study that came out that showed that people that went through Spiritual First Aid were not only more likely to recognize the needs that they had correctly, but also to respond with more humble helping responses.

And then this third one that we were really excited about was that it found that those who went through Spiritual First Aid were also more likely to directly ask about safety issues like suicide. So, everything we're doing is research-based. And then the third one is that it's trauma-informed.

You know, so we recognize not everyone has trauma, but we also know about 70% of the general population that as adults will have at least one traumatic event. So, we're going to encounter a lot of people in our daily life that are experiencing this.

And then, overall, what we've tried to do is, you know, take all these kind of complex ideas and really simplify them into something that's easy to learn, remember, and actually put into practice.

So, we took all that and boiled 15 years of research and over 20 some years of experience, 5 years of field testing to bring Spiritual First Aid in its current form, and we teach now through the BLESSED CPR framework, where we really try to make it super concrete, take that guesswork out of spiritual and emotional care for frontline helpers.

Okay. So, I just want So, you know what a mental health first aid is, right? Yeah. And then the the youth mental Okay, because after the Parkland I'm in Broward County. So, after the park and I worked at I was a um they called me back to being a therapist after I I was in another career right after the Parkland shooting.

So, February of 2018 happened. I was known to work with teenagers, families couple of families reached out to me. I'm like, I'm not a therapist anymore, but then God was like, yeah, you're going back. And I'm like, okay. What a way to come back, my goodness.

Yes, yes. So, I worked at an alternative high school, but I was in charge of for my high school and my the employees that worked there was the mental health for that was became mandatory, I think in the whole state of Florida that everybody that worked had to take the youth mental health first aid.

And so, I would like to know, is it kind of like that where a person goes in, you know, the bless CPR and I know there was another one, um, another kind of framework you guys had too, cuz I think I wrote about both, but is it something that they do in a day and then they get certified or is it like some they do, you know, week by week for 4 weeks or how's this work?

Yeah. Well, one of the things that we found like when we first launched spiritual first aid, we originally it was all going to be delivered by in-person workshops and then COVID-19 had a different idea.

So, right as we were getting ready to do our big release, COVID-19 we kind of saw it cuz we had just finished up a big project with uh, Chicago Department of Public Health, um, that was funded through CDC and so we kind of saw the writing on the walls before things got really bad.

And so we quickly pivoted, put it out in the world through an online course that people could do in about 6 to 8 hours on their own. And then we started getting all these messages from people of saying, hey, we'd love to run through it in a small group.

And then we started getting messages of, hey, we'd love to be able to do this in a one-day workshop. And then, hey, we would love to be able to take this and how do we boil it down so that people can get some of the basics, but maybe don't have time to get all the way through certification.

So, for us, again, going back to that love for research, when we hear those things, we start researching and start getting groups and piloting things. And now you can actually take it and get certified in multiple ways. So, for instance, you could go through, do it on your own on demand, um, and you can find out that information at spiritualfirstaid.org.

And you can get through that entire course in about six, maybe eight hours on your own. Work at your own pace, um, and then there's a brief assessment and you can get certified. But then we also have a group version.

So, we have lots of organizations and churches and small groups where they get together over 6 weeks and they meet for an hour to 90 minutes at a time and can go through the whole curriculum and we've really tried again, not only take the guesswork out of helping, but also of how to lead these groups.

So, we've got a facilitator's guide that literally has these great like big orange icons and says, do this, do that. So, if you can read a few instructions and hold a conversation with others, you could lead one of these groups. And then, the third way, um, that we have is that my colleague Kent and I, we also do in-person workshops where you can bring us in.

So, I actually just got back from Texas. Um, was in Amarillo where I worked with a great group of um, uh, uh, both local ministers, but also with um, chaplains in the area and with nursing homes and assisted living communities, like leaders from those groups.

So, it was a wonderful time. And this is going to be actually the first time that I've shared this publicly, so um, but so coming out in spring, we'll also be having a facilitator-led version of spiritual first aid. So that somebody who's gone through it can then take the course and we've got a facilitator curriculum that allows you to then go out and train large groups in a single day.

And so we've been piloting that now for 6 months and what we found, uh, so we've been working with Lutheran Social Services and they've trained now about a thousand people all over the US. Again, in some of these really hard situations like after the fire that happened in Hawaii to they were just down in North Carolina, but then also working with churches that haven't gone through something bad yet and training them how to provide for those everyday needs that people have.

And we've been able to again, through research, be able to show that the outcomes are just as strong as if Kent and I were the ones doing it.

So, I don't know what that says about Kent and I's training or maybe it's the fact that we tend to get pulled into those groups that in those really difficult situations and often times we're the ones kind of getting pulled in with the groups that have a little more expertise, but there's actually no statistical difference that we found between if we're doing it or if somebody else as a lay helper is taking others through the curriculum.

Well, comes to mind is that your hard work of 15 years of research and putting something together, honestly, if you think about something that's working well, it doesn't if you're training them well, you know what I mean, then it should. Cuz if if God forbid, you know, the Lord takes you and the other Kent, did you say his name is?

Yeah, you know, you want to leave that legacy behind of like, here's something that has actually worked. Because that's something with the, you know, the mental health first aid, it's like it was all around the country, but um, there was a facilitator I had to go to and then I had to bring the group in.

I never got trained into doing it, but um, I'm interested in maybe, yeah, we'll see. We'll see after after we record this. Yeah, when I saw your face light up, I was already thinking like, oh, we got to talk. So. So, okay, so I have another question that just came to mind is, um, because this is spiritual first aid and I know there's so many different denominations and religions.

I mean, this is the beauty of our country, right? Freedom of religion and spirituality is part of all these different religions. Can something like this, even though it's biblically based, can you still utilize it for other groups? Yeah, great, great question. And actually that was one of the big challenges that we tried to solve when we were starting spiritual first aid.

It was actually one of the reasons why we decided to kind of step into this space because we recognize that the people that we work with aren't always going to believe like ourselves, but also that as Christians we have a unique position to be able to step in and a calling, I would even argue, to care for those in their time of need.

But at the same time, and I've experienced this firsthand, where sometimes well-meaning Christians end up causing more harm than help. And so, and that often occurs exactly around what you're talking about. When we start engaging with others maybe that believe differently or maybe it's even we just don't know what to say and we kind of rely on clichés that end up causing harm to someone.

Right. So, one of the things that we teach that's unique in our program is what we call the spiritual care continuum. So, if you kind of think about those bless CPRs, we you learn how to start by focusing with humility. And so, everything that we do is grounded in humility, which is also going to help us when we work across faith traditions.

So, we actually did a study, um, and I apologize. I from this workshop, it was so funny, one of the people had actually kept a tally of how many times I said, there's a study about or there's a research. Um, so it was cracked me up.

Um, but anyways, I'll try not to say research too much here. Oh, it's okay. You're talking to a nerd. But we actually did this one study where we had people and we put them in the lab together and we had people talking to each other that pretty much, you know, like all those topics they tell you like not to talk about at the holidays or Thanksgiving table.

Yeah. Politics and religion. We took all of those. Like, the more controversial the topic, the better. And we found people that believed exactly opposite and we put them in a room together and said, oh, here's your topic, discuss, and then we walked out.

And then let them talk. And what we found was that people who had were perceived to have higher levels of humility, the other person, even though they believed completely different, were more likely to hear what they had to say. And they liked the person and they felt more connected to that person.

So, humility, starting with understanding that we all have strengths and weaknesses, but it helps us to see things in a more humble way. So, that's the first part. But then, as you're walking through the steps that we teach in bless CPR, that we encourage people to think that you're walking on a trauma-informed path that has kind of two lanes.

One is a uh, subtle spiritual care lane and the other lane is an obvious spiritual care lane. And this is why it helps us navigate, we call it the spiritual care continuum. Um, so I've got a uh, I've got three daughters. Taught two of them how to drive.

My third one will start this summer. And each one of them, when I first taught them how to pass, you know, it was like, okay, we're going to slowly come in and I want you to look in the mirror, make sure it's safe to go around.

You're just going to put your signal on, gently go in the other lane, you're just going to glide by and then glide back in slowly. Well, that's not how it went for any of them, right? Like the first time, it was like the wheel is being spun, there wasn't actual squealing of tires, but it's wondered that wasn't happening.

You know, the the accelerator gets jammed and then like pulls rapidly in front. I'm praying, so now I'm actually in the obvious spiritual care lane, you know, about what's happening.

Um, but often times, I share that story because isn't that sometimes how we work with others from different faiths that maybe we don't even know what they believe and we jump right into the other lane and it's got to feel like that to them where somebody's just spinning in front of them and almost taking them off the road.

Where we always want to approach from a subtle care lane. Find out where that person's coming from. And like earlier, you talked about religious trauma. Maybe it's not the time to talk about faith because maybe it's going to actually trigger something where later down the road they'll be ready, but right now they're not.

So, part of it is starting that subtle care lane, finding out if that person is maybe of shared faith, are they open to this? You know, so we teach some basic questions, how to explore this in a subtle way. And then if it is appropriate and if it's the appropriate setting, to be able to bring faith in in a more explicit manner.

But that's the way that we teach it so that that way you can work across traditions. And even if that person, like maybe at the end of the session or not session, but helping interaction, you ask, you know, could I pray for you?

Maybe that person says no. Well, just cuz they said no, like you still can pray silently for that person. So, accept what they said, don't force that on them because if you force it, you're probably going to cause more challenges for that person and not actually help.

Exactly, exactly. And and sometimes what it's becoming aware of yourself and your own belief system and your own, maybe, religious trauma that you're carrying around because a lot of people that are, you know, I was I wasn't raised in church, right? My husband is a Southern Baptist preacher's kid, though.

That's a very difficult upbringing. Yeah, and I've been with him for 30 years. So, it's like, you know, like I had to learn a lot, but I was I was taught at a very young age how to listen to understand instead of listening to respond.

Absolutely. And that's And in Spiritual First Aid, you know, one of the big takeaways that we teach, you know, is on this idea of practical presence. And that we also encourage people to remember that like, your presence says more than any words that you could ever say.

You know, like you said, we spend way too much time trying to think about what we're going to say instead of just actually listening and being with. And there's something powerful about just being with. Mhm. Yeah, and that's a training. That's a hard thing cuz we live in a society that it's all about being right and being like I I I, you know, iPhone, I I selfies.

It's just, you know, especially nowadays, and but there's so much more hurt and pain that I've ever seen in my whole lifetime on on this Earth, right? So, it's like trying to bring you I love that you're trying to bring unity and understanding and having difficult conversations.

I love that idea that you brought two people from different because that's what we need more of that. We need more of that of, you know, I'm a woman of color, as you see, and that's a thing that I continually have to teach people cuz they get Some people get offended right away.

I just came back from North Carolina and I trained on cultural competency. Mhm. And that right there, some people, when I said that, they automatically went to the political DEI, and I'm like, "No, no, no. Okay, you need to slow down because you're now judging me."

Like, and I'll put that back on them. Like, "No, you Why don't you try to understand where I'm coming from first before, you know, what's going on inside of you that's causing it to rise up? Like, this is something we need to have a conversation about.

It's not a bad thing. It's actually good that we have these difficult conversations and have understanding, compassion, and humility, everything that Jesus is. Right. Maybe you could try following in those steps, right? Like Yeah. So, okay, the BLES CPR, because you keep saying we keep saying BLES CPR.

What does that actually mean? Right. So, one of the things that we've done, you maybe like you've seen in some other trainings or, you know, some of you listeners may not be familiar I know you are though, the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, right? Like the big giant red book of diagnoses.

And there's like hundreds of them. You know, I sometimes joke that I that I used to keep it behind me so that way people saw it on my bookshelf, they'd automatically attribute like an extra four IQ points cuz the book is just so thick and dense, right?

Yes. You know, we spend And we're on number five, right? Five CPR. Are we on TR? Yeah, TR and A. Okay. Yeah, right. And so, you know, and it changes on us as well, right? So, so you and I, we had to spend all these years memorizing all of these things.

But what we, again, was we wanted to we realized that the average person can still do good without having to know all of those things. And so, what we did was we boiled it down instead of hundreds of diagnoses to what are the five core needs that research shows that when they go unmet cause distress.

And if we can provide care for that, it can start to reduce that distress. And for those of you that are wondering, "But Jamie, does it work with the DSM?" You can actually take all those diagnoses and overlay them across those five simple unmet needs.

Those are the BLES needs. So, by focusing on needs, you're able to address those other issues without having to know exactly what that full problem is in front of you. So, I'll run through those BLES needs. They're They're biological, that's what the B stands for.

L in BLES stands for livelihood needs. The E is emotional. The S is social. And the last S is spiritual. And that they're all interconnected. So, it's really, you know, it's even one of the things I love about the name of your podcast, right?

That this is a holistic approach to mental health care. I don't know if you can see, but kind of up here in the back corner, you can just barely see I've got a Rubik's Cube up there. Yes. Yes. And that was actually given to me from someone that I helped at one point.

Because they had described their life as a Rubik's Cube that had been shattered and all the pieces had been flying apart. And that by me providing care for them, that it helped to bring them back together again. And so, that's something I keep.

But also, another reason why I have that Rubik's Cube is to remind me of something I learned back in middle school. So, I I had this friend of mine who loved playing with Rubik's Cubes. I was not one of those people. I would get easily frustrated and overwhelmed.

And I think the only way I ever actually solved it was by when I learned like, "Oh, you can peel off those little tiles and stick them back on." Right? So, that that's a tip that you weren't expecting to get today, wasn't it?

Yeah. But with that Rubik's Cube, you know, I had a friend I was like, "You know, Rob, how do you solve these things?" He's like, "Jamie, you're trying to solve it wrong. You're trying to solve the whole thing at once." He's like, "Instead, push on one tile.

What happens?" Well, the whole thing starts to shift because it's all interconnected. And that's what we teach with the BLES needs because most people are going to come to you, and you could put a problem on every single tile, a different problem, in fact, and it can feel overwhelming as a helper of where do we start?

So, we tell you you don't have to solve it all. Instead, just work with that person. What is your most pressing need you have right now? What's the one thing in this moment I can do to help you? Focus on that one tile, so to speak, and when you do, it's interconnected, so it starts to shift everything at the same time.

So, that's what I mean by this BLES need. So, then I'll just quickly here though go through the full model. So, you've got the BLES needs. Mhm. And then what we're going to do in step one is BLES triage, which is exactly kind of what I just demonstrated or modeled there of, you know, what is that most pressing need that you have?

You know, you've shared a lot of things today that are really troubling and and seem to be really hard. What's one of those things I could help you with right now? So, we're going to figure out is it that biological, livelihood, emotional, social, or spiritual need that's most pressing in the moment.

And then the next step is we're going to care with practical presence. So, this is kind of what I was talking about a moment ago of where we step alongside someone, walk with them through the hardship they're going through. And we want to be mindful of the things that we say, but if you're like me, you're probably going to put your foot in your mouth, and and just know that that's okay.

It's more important to be there than the words you're saying. And then so, that's the C in BLES CPR. Next, we have the P, which is provide coping practices. So, in the moment, we may be able to walk that person through maybe just a deep breathing technique, and we actually introduce about 50 different techniques that are all research-based that, again, go across this continuum of explicitly spiritually oriented or more subtle in nature.

And then maybe you walk that person through because they're starting to really get distraught in front of you. So, you walk them through a a grounding technique, for example. But then maybe it's that you don't have the chance to do it in person, so you're going to teach them how to do it on their own when they're not with you.

So, you're going to That then takes us to the next step, which is the R in BLES CPR, which is to refer and resource. You know, sometimes we've worked with others in the church or Christians in other fields, and I'll hear them say, "But if I refer, I feel like I'm letting that person down."

That that's a myth, and that's a lie we tell ourselves. Yes. In fact, referring to get that person the care that they need is actually one of the most important and best things that you can do to help. Exactly. Sometimes that means referring to someone like you, you know, to a trained mental health professional.

Other times, based on the need, maybe it's a local nonprofit or it's a ministry in the church they need connected to. Or maybe it's just a resource. Maybe it's, "Oh, I read this book. I found it really helpful. You should totally check it out.

I can swing by Tuesday and drop it off at the office for you." Right? You know, so we want to refer and resource. So, that's the BLES CPR model. That start by BLES triaging, then we're going to provide practical presence, care, and then the practices, and then the refer and resource.

Wow. Wow, you guys really have done a lot of research and organizing. I love it. I love Um, what mo- modalities do you utilize, though? Like with when it comes to Um, you know, the you said the resources or the other things, like, do you use like CBT, DBT, you know, something like that?

I mean, what was it that you researched on how to help with the psychology part? Because that's something that I have seen in some churches, and I've talked to some um pastors that it's like, "Oh, psychology, that's, you know, it's biblical counseling only."

I mean, and so, that's resistance, right? And so, I'm going, "Okay."

You know, and so, I get cuz doing this for four years now, cuz it's been only four years that I've had my private practice and being a Christian therapist, you know, there's a I I don't know how else to explain it, but there is like a a like a line, like, you know, like there's people in different areas, and I'm realizing that, too, when people come to me, that's where I had to really work on like,

"Oh, I have my belief systems, but you know, they come from different denominations, or they have these specific thought process."

Cuz I do. I I've come across some men, mostly. No offense, dude. But But it's like they have this very strict way of thinking of things, and I'm going, "Yeah, but people are trying to kill themselves at your church. So, hello." All right.

So. No, I I I hear you. Like I actually remember visiting a church where in the town I grew up, I was at that time getting my doctorate in psychology, and remember the pastor pulling me aside and said, "Jamie, I I heard you're studying psychology for your doctorate, and I want you to know I'm praying for your soul."

Right? Like there was definitely some mental health stigma around psychology, for sure. And we know that. And in fact, again, that's another reason why we actually created Spiritual First Aid was to combat some of that mental health stigma. So, we've presented in a manner that is biblically informed, but also draws from language within the church and cross traditions to make it more accessible.

So, we actually don't use a lot of mental health language. In fact, you can go through our entire course and there's not a lot of the psychological jargon that, you know, like I tend to sometimes teach in when I'm teaching grad students, for example.

Right? Or if I'm talking to somebody like yourself, but we actually tried to take that that same sort of concepts, but to make it accessible in language that everyday people will be able to relate to and not to let the stigma get in the way.

And so, then in terms of where we drew from, we did draw from a lot of different mental health traditions. You know, theologically, we're coming at it from a non denominational perspective and biblically informed. But the other part is we actually have people across that entire spectrum within the Christian tradition of those who maybe aren't quite sure what to think about mental health to those who are already mental health advocates.

And we're having people use them in both camps, right? Because we again, we even teach it in a way that goes from that kind of like subtle to more obvious approach, so it makes it easier for others to adopt it without getting caught up in some of the stigma or some of the common arguments.

Okay. So, when you're working with other churches across the country or across the world, I'm thinking Yeah, we're we're working on that. Yeah, so we've largely focused on, you know, as we developed the current version, you know, we largely were focusing on a North America audience.

But now we've got groups in England and Australia, New Zealand. And then we're actually we have our again, we're working on our research on it, but we're working on a culturally adapted version for Ukraine. So, we've already piloted it once. We have a large clinical trial that we're going to be launching in the spring there.

And then working on a model for how that can be more easily adapted for use and we're already working on a Spanish version and on a real version as well. And so, we're starting to you know, we'll start rolling that out internationally more in the future, but first we want to make sure that we're studying it to make sure that it is evidence-based before we roll it out in the other countries.

Okay. How well, let's talk go back to resistance a little because I'm sure you've had that. How do you like what would you like to say to someone that's going hmm, should I do this with my congregation or not or like you know, what is the fear?

Like that because to me it may fear, right? That stops a person from or just like what do you think because I think what what a lot of people might pops up to their heads like, oh my goodness, what if someone's got a hardcore mental illness, right?

And all of a sudden now I'm stuck with all this and they don't they got their own stuff going on. So, like can you address that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, because for us one of the things that we know, right? That you know, you were even talking earlier about how much hurt there just is in the world right now and how lonely people are.

The this is a real need that people have around mental health and that there's more people needing help than there are professional helpers, especially more people needing help than licensed mental health professionals. But we also know that for instance, we did this one of the study where we asked people, where do you turn to for help first?

You know, when you're going through a crisis. And the answer won't surprise you. It kind of feels like a Seinfeld episode. Like it's right there straight in front of you. Everybody knows it, just nobody had ever had documented it before. Which was family and friends.

And then the church. And out of a list of 12, do you want to guess where mental health professionals were ranked on that? Let's see. 10? A little higher up actually. We were number 12. The last place people turn to for help first.

And that was so eye-opening. So, then it's like, what if we can equip the people on the front lines, the family, the friends, the church? And then how do we enhance collaboration with mental health professionals, right? And so, you may be thinking one of those areas of resistance could be, I don't know that I'm ready to step into the space, especially if there's like a severe mental illness.

Maybe someone has schizophrenia, for example, right? That could feel really overwhelming as a helper. Well, that's okay that feels overwhelming and I'm glad it does cuz that's you, your body's and your mind telling you that you are a little bit out of the water that you should be wading into.

So, provide some basic care, but then we teach you then of how to recognize when you are out of your scope of practice of to now I'm going to refer this this person to someone else that does have the level of expertise needed.

So, one of the things that we teach in spiritual first aid is that this isn't to put more on your shoulders. It's more about how do we share the other people's burdens together and respond as the full body of Christ along with the resources that we have in our local community.

So, that's I think one way. You know, I think another way that we can kind of start to overcome some of this resistance is to ask ourselves like, what do we actually mean by mental health? You know, I've I've actually done this before like in our workshops where I've had people sometimes write down like, define mental health for us.

And then have a few people share. And right away, like if there's 50 people in a room, you've got 50 different definitions of it, right? But I think the part that people fear, it goes back to some of that and there's some reasons for that, right?

Like historically, you know, it used to be that you know, pastors and priests were the were people turn to for mental health. And then in the late 1800s, there was even this movement called the Emmanuel movement, which which was amazing and something that actually influenced how I think about collaboration, where you actually had this Boston priest along with a Harvard trained psychiatrist and physician that got together and they wanted to figure out, how do we care for the poor and underserved in our community?

So, the medical physician provided physical training and you know, like education and provided some basic medical care. And the priest provided basic spiritual training and formation, but also provided spiritual care. And they worked together and it actually launched a national movement in the US and very few people know about it.

It was like even covered in the magazine Redbook going into the early 1900s. And these kind of this movement was happening all over the US. And then all of a sudden, you've got Freud, our friend Freud comes into the picture and he gives a series of lectures in the early like 1900s saying pretty much anything that's wrong, one of it's either your mom's fault or it's God's fault, right?

Like he pretty much blames everybody. Right. And you start to see suddenly the stigma around faith and mental health. And then on top of that, then about that time, you see the American Medical Association come into the picture and say, wait a minute, clergy.

That whole talk therapy and support thing you're doing, that's not for you. That's for us to do. So, that you can actually trace that schism all the way back to early 1900s. So, no wonder we still get hung up on this topic, right?

a lot done. But now we do see this more openness. And so, if you're helping other people with spiritual first aid, we're we're not teaching you to you know, analyze dreams or or things like that. You know, we're we're really focusing on, what is that practical need and how to provide care.

And one of the other things that we teach is because we do know some people are afraid of referring because they're like, well, what if I refer maybe one of my congregants and the last time I referred, they put some really wild ideas and then and then they even stopped coming to church.

Part of what we teach is, how do you vet your resources? How do you find people that you can trust and refer to? And what does it actually look like to actually collaborate across disciplines? So, we actually talk about those things and give you tools so that you don't land in that type of position.

So, I went I just want to pause for a moment. I went from the late 1800s all the way up to today in about 3 minutes. I don't know that I got anything else to share. No, that's impressive. And okay, so let's just if somebody's interested in this, right?

A pastor's listening, a youth pastor. I mean, is this for like leadership at church or is this just for anybody? I mean, like tell me how how to start. Like now I'm curious. Like the listener's going, ooh, this sounds really good. I'm kind of curious.

Where do I start? What do I do? Do I talk to my pastor? Do I talk to who do I talk to? Like how do I get this movement movement going? talk to your pastor. And and one of the things that we've really found with spiritual first aid where it's really taken off has been when there's a champion behind it bringing it to their church or to their nonprofit or to their their local communities even.

And so, maybe if you're listening, it probably tells me you're already a mental health champion, right? Like if they're listening to this, they already probably have some interest. So, then you're the right person to get the ball rolling wherever you're trying to get it to take off.

So, the first step would be to go through spiritual first aid yourself so that you can really understand it, have a way to better understand it and then take it to your leadership. And you can reach out to our team at spiritualfirstaid.org or info@spiritualfirstaid.org.

And we actually have resources that you can turn around like sample emails of like, how can I write to my pastor to get permission to try to launch this? Or maybe you're the pastor and you're looking at, hey, I wish I had a 90-second video and a sample prayer and a just a few bullet points to read up front to get the church excited about it.

We've got that for you. So, just reach out to us, let us know what you need and how we can help. And then from there, one of the things that we have found that often times where it takes off best is when you do have a group of leaders go through the course.

And then from there, some groups will offer even more broadly to the larger congregation, but we also have a mini course that introduces to some of those basics. And right now in Michigan, we actually have a church that's used the last couple of Sundays or I think they have one more Sunday left where they're taking their entire congregation now through the mini course cuz the mini course can be done anywhere from an hour to 3 hours depending how you use it.

And then we also have a child mini course. So, we have a version about spiritual first aid that we teach you how to care for children and adolescents. And again, you can do it in an hour to 3 hours. And originally, we thought we were going to create another full-blown, you know, 6-9 hour training like we did our certificate course.

And I guess we were hearing all these people say, "Oh, can you make it for kids and adults or adolescents so we can help?" And then we started sharing the idea. I'm like, "Did you not hear the part that we work with children and adolescents?

That means we have no time. We have no time in our lives. So, give us the basics. Get it simple, something I can learn and put actionable right away." So, if you're looking for that kind of starting experience, then one of those mini courses could be helpful.

But for those that really want a deep dive deep dive deep, excuse me, dive deeply. All my words in that 100-year span and now I can't speak normally here. But those that want to go deep, then the certificate course is really the one to go to.

Okay. All right. And all this will be in the show notes, guys, for those that are listening or interested or thinking like, "Oh, I just would like to, you know, share this with my pastor or, you know, or go through it like you said."

Is there a cost involved? Like how I mean, I know like of course there's going to be a cost involved because it took a lot of time and effort to put this together correctly. So, I mean, is there like tell me about that?

Yeah, yeah. So, there is a cost. So, the course for the on-demand, so you can go online and purchase it for and get a year access. And then we also, if you're looking at purchasing it in groups, then we actually have pretty significant discounts.

So, you're able to purchase it in a block of 10, 25, or 50, or even 100. And each level it goes up significantly. But then we also even have groups that are training way more than 100, that are actually training thousands of people.

And so, if that's the case, we can work with you to help. And the other part is we don't ever want anybody not to have skills. So, you know, if you're struggling financially like reach out to us, we can try to figure out a way to make it work.

But also, because we truly believe that we want everyone to be equipped that we also give her away free resources almost every single Monday. So, if you sign up to our newsletter, and so you can go to fightthementalhealthcrisis.org. And when you go there, you can actually get a free course preview.

So, you can get a taste of some of the basics of what you and I've talked about today and some other free downloads. And when you access that at fightthementalhealthcrisis.org, it also automatically signs you up for our e-newsletter. And we send out a free resource almost every week.

This past week, we just sent one out on veterans mental health. Um I'm actually finishing up this morning. Like right before I hopped on the call, the reason why I wasn't early on the call was I was finishing up next week's, which is going to be a workbook on gratitude.

We had some just recently on childhood suicide of how to recognize it and respond. So, and then another free gift that we'd love to be able to share with your listeners is a church mental health toolkit. So, we created an entire platform that's all free and it has over 30 different resources.

So, there's field guides, tip sheets, there's fact sheets, little flip cards, it's interactive, and then expert interviews. And you can get that by going to churchmentalhealthtoolkit.org. So, churchmentalhealthtoolkit.org. And again, right away 30 free resources. Okay, wonderful. I'm going to put that all in the show notes, too, all those websites that he just spoke about.

And you know, it's you just said that you you just finished writing about gratitude. Yesterday, my blog was on gratitude. Oh, well, I'll have to check it out. So. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because to me it's just like I'm trying to help I have I have a lot of young clients that come.

I would say my wheelhouse now, cuz it was adolescents, but now it's like 25 to 35-year-olds professional like, you know, and and it's just they're trying to build their resiliency and you know, it's a whole different generation and I I get it. Like, you know, I'm not going to blame them for things because honestly we're the ones who raised them.

So, it's like, you know what I mean? It's like I'm trying to help them understand the their identity in Christ, honestly, before anything. To get them to, you know, if if they come to me and wanting the faith part of it, I don't ever force that on anybody that comes to me as a client ever.

If they say, "No, we want that." I'm like, "All right, then. Are you ready?" So, anyway, is there anything you would like to tell the audience before we end our episode? Yeah, I I just want to tell everybody thank you for listening to this episode because it does tell me like I said a minute ago that you probably are that mental health champion.

And maybe you even feel a little bit alone, whether it's in your church or your business or your community, because you're probably the person that's asking and wanting to figure out how can I help with mental health. And I just want to say by ending with some gratitude.

So, since we're talking about it, just say thank you to each of you for being the type of people that are willing to step into the hard places of other people's lives. So, you're not alone. There's lots of us out there and I'm so grateful to you for the podcast that you've got and the way that you're building community and bringing us all together.

So, I'll end by saying thanks to you, our host. Aw, thanks, Dr. or Jamie, Dr. Aten. I had to figure out how to say his name earlier. Aten? Aten? I respond about anything. I know, right? All right. So, listener, once again, thanks for listening and don't forget to trust in the Lord, guard your heart, and renew your mind.

Bye. And now for the disclaimer, to make sure you understand that you are responsible for you. The content provided on the Holistic Counselor podcast is for entertainment informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified mental health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical or mental condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. The views expressed on this podcast are my personal opinions and do not represent the views of any professional organizations with which I am affiliated.

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