Spiritual Warfare in the Therapy Room: Ethical & Faith-Based Strategies for Christian Counselors

hello there fearfully and wonderfully made human and welcome to another episode of the holistic counselor podcast it's me Diana from through the valley therapy and transform mind Consulting and coaching if you've been in the counseling field long enough you've probably had moments where something in session felt different a resistance that wasn't just clinical a heaviness that lingered a client wrestling with something deeper than trauma or mental health struggles alone as Christian therapists we know that spiritual

warfare is real but how do we navigate it ethically professionally and with discernment in the therapy room that's exactly what we're exploring today with my guest Camille McDaniel LPC Camille has been a licensed professional counselor since 2005 and is the founder of healing Psychotherapy practices of Georgia where she integrates Christian principles into mental health treatment she is also the host of Christ in private practice a podcast designed to help Christian mental health professionals build faith- centered

clinically sound private practices I came across Camille's podcast on YouTube and her death of insight immediately resonated with me she doesn't just talk about the business side of Private Practice she speaks to the spiritual battles we face as counselors and how we can stay anchored in our faith while serving others so today we're pulling back the curtain on what spiritual warfare looks like in a clinical setting how do we recognize it how do we respond and

how do we protect not just our clients but also ourselves so let's welcome Camille I'm so glad you're here I'm glad to be here thank you so much for the invitation all right we're gonna start with you Camille because we just met literally two minutes before I pressed record that's true right so let's just start with you what led you to become a Christian counselor I know right I love this story because it's so it is

it's really a little plain but honestly I was 9 years old I I love the story I'll remember this until forever nine years old I wanted to be three things in this world and I wanted to be a veterinarian I wanted to be a lawyer and I wanted to be a psychologist psychologist was the only term that I knew for for counseling at the time um and by the time I hit now I don't even know

where all of that came from honestly I just know I was definitely an animal lover I was a sensitive person I'm the one my mother still reminds me of how I would cry when the leaves would lose their their leaves like forth fall and all of that that was just that was me um and I and I enjoy connecting with people I am the person who on their report card it said Camille's talking too much Camille

talking too much um because I love connecting with people so those were the things that I knew could let me um be um more of what I enjoyed anyway well by the time I hit High School I actually found out that um when you're a veterinarian sometimes you have to put animals to sleep I was absolutely not interested that it didn't take me very long I was just like oh really nope and then um I found

out that in law sometimes you do you have to represent everyone even if they're not telling the truth and I was like well that didn't didn't make a lot of sense to me to to represent if I know they're lying can't we just kind of get to the point and it's like and um what stayed really and truly from that point on was um what I now know to be the feel of counseling and um then

eventually obviously learned that there are many different ways that you can travel you can be a psychologist you can be a you know licensed professional counselor or or other um professions as well or titles as well within within the field so that really was my journey I just stuck I just stuck to it and I just really didn't deviate much um interestingly enough I was talking to my mother maybe a week ago just recalling the the

journey honestly of of where I am today and I said do you remember how you wouldn't get me a job so my mother retired from IBM and um in her position there she had an opportunity to allow me to be an intern there two summers in a row and it was really cool and I was like I love this um and what I was thinking in my like 19-year-old mind was I love these paychecks and so

um I said can you like get me you know get me a job and she wouldn't she had the ability to and she wouldn't I and I was talking with her about that I'm like remember you wouldn't even get me a job and she said it was not the path you were supposed to be on Camille and I knew that the Lord had put me in that job specifically to help support you and to help just

our life uh together and she said and that was just not where you were supposed to be and I'm like wow well you were correct I was like you know but at the time that stung and so that's that's just how I got to where I am today and I've always been someone who loved the Lord just been introduced to the Lord since I was a little girl and always um able to have my relationship with

God no one ever you know said it was weird that I wanted to like read my Bible on a Wednesday you know or play my music to you know my on a Thursday they'd be like all right come do your thing um and so it just was you know that my relationship with him was able to just grow as a as a young girl and then through my life he's just always been there with me um

UPS Downs round and round and know that's that's where it kind of led me yeah so did you where where did you go to school for to get your Masters oh I was at oh well Georgia State for my bachelor's argassi University for my master so I was all secularly trained okay like that and that's beautiful that you stayed that close and and I mean because I'm sure you were challenged especially I know in our field

I'll never forget when they uh because I was secularly trained too and so they're like this is your Bible and I'm like huh wait what do you mean that's my Bible like no the DSM is not my Bible and for those that are listening that don't know what the DI the DSM is it's a diagnostical statistical manual that we are supposed to go by for everything that's basically our training yes is that and you're right it

was a little bit of a challenge I met you know other individuals along the way of many different beliefs some the same as mine some some different but yeah that it does get to be a little challenging um I think what just helped was just kind of the relationship he just kind of always pulled me back if I Stray too far to the left to the right you know um but but I always was wanting to

know how I can keep my relationship with him no matter what I did so that's kind of what led me then to um to Christian Counseling of being and then I didn't start off just like offering Christian Counseling I started off as like a Christian who was a counselor and then over the years more and more I just wanted to really kind of more reconcile my walk with Christ and my my career so that sought me

to just do more dreaming so in the beginning did you like where did you do your internship were you able to to straight into being a Christian because that's something that I know a lot of people and a lot of us too that are in the field that are believers you know so they're like oh I'm a counselor who is a Christian which means like they don't advertise it and then you have the no I'm straight

up biblical counseling and that's it and you should not be straying away from the Bible for anything and psychology is from the devil and so okay and then you have people in between and I think you and I like what I listen to your podcast and and I and just for the little bit of conversation we had I think we kind of like you're in Georgia doing your thing I'm in South Florida doing my thing but

we're kind of like doing the the same but different thing like we we understand the holistic approach of things so can you tell me a little bit about like in the beginning where did you do Community Mental Health were you working for someone else how did you end up being in private practice oh that's a yeah that's great I started in a mental health a community mental health setting so I worked for a community service board

for um oh probably a good four or so years like after I graduated um actually when I graduated graduate school um and initially got licensed I was working at a children's shelter but I was not in the capacity of a counselor and so my first job as a like licensed counselor was in Community Mental Health setting in homes in jails detention for youth yep working with the court system you know all of those team alternative high

schools was mostly mine okay yep um and so that's where I really cut my teeth and um and I did that for like I said for about four years or so and um and then transitioned into private practice um you know Community Mental Health it's hard but honestly I will say it gives you a variety of experiences so that you kind of you know know what you um what you like and what you're you're not as

great at and and all of that so from there I started transitioning like probably my last year in Community Mental Health I was transitioning between working Community Mental Health full-time and starting my private practice part-time right um just like yeah I did the same I was working at the school during the day and taking one or two clients in the evening okay know and how long ago was that for you uh I started my practice this

in 2010 wow it's been a little while 15 years or 15 years yeah so let's go into like now that you know once you were getting I'm sure honestly when it came to spiritual warfare there were times where like when I was working with the team or going into the homes and it wasn't often like I don't want people to think like we're talking about spiritual warfare that we're trying to say oh that's from that's the

devil that's the devil that's the devil because that then you're giv the Satan got too much power and he really doesn't have any right right right and but there were maybe in all the years I've been practicing I would say less than a handful of I know this was more than the the psychiatric DSM diagnosis more than um them not getting enough sleep and drugs and all that there was something going and then when I come

to find out like oh yeah Grandma did some kind of like spiritual thing or and then I'm like okay this makes sense so let's go into spiritual Warfare because it is a loaded topic you know yes so how do you define spiritual warfare in the counseling room and what are some common ways it shows up in session yeah that was a good one and I actually you know what came to me the Holy Spirit just like

reminded me of the scripture as I was driving into work today and I was I was thinking on our time together and it was um from the book of Ephesians and it was talking about put on the full armor of God so that you would be able to withstand the Ws of the enemy or Satan and then it says um for we fight not against flesh and blood but principalities powers of the age and principalities in

dark spaces you know and so we we first have to kind of come to the understanding that we live in a world of Flesh and spirit and and so if there is flesh and spirit then you know just like in the flesh world there's going to be wonderful things that happen and things that we enjoy and memories we create and in the spirit realm there are wonderful things that happen all around us we don't even know

about it right we can't really see it with the naked eye and just like in the F flesh World um there are bad things that happen there are tragic things there are terrible things that happen and in the spirit realm there are bad things that happen there are terrible things that happen and so when we talk about spiritual warfare in the counseling setting it's saying that there are some individuals who come in and um and you

know that they are bogged down by things that we can't see um we know that because sometimes they'll share um I've had clients sometimes share certain practices that they have delved into and it is now impacting them I've had some clients they're not sharing at all but um but I noticed that it's hm it's not physical because when I asked them about last time that they've got a physical that involved blood work what did the doctors

say and we go through all of that and what medications are they taking and everything seems to be checking out according to what they're sharing and when we talk about okay what are some of the challenges that you're having that are impacting your mental and your physical or excuse me your mental and your emotional and we we kind of see that yes maybe they're dealing with I'll take for example let's say they're experiencing high anxiety and

stress and and somehow we we do the work on the anxiety and we do the work on some of the stress and we make some changes but there's there's just something some something that just keeps on coming back to them and usually it is something that is um self-defeating usually it is something that is um associated with destruction associated with them not being enough associated with them never getting somewhere like outside of the work that we've

done and they're saying yeah oh thank you so much that really helped the anxiety or thank you that really you know uh helped me sleep a little bit better but then this thing keeps coming back keeps coming back and usually the way that I see the spiritual warfare happening in my counseling room is it is often associated with like the Bible talks about the enemy comes to steal kill and destroy yeah and it usually seems to

center around these messages these feelings that people get that they're not safe they're not good enough their future is not going to ever involve X Y and Z that they're just being punished because they're undeserving like all of this heaviness weighing down on them that seems to be coming from no other place that we can identify okay um outside school's going great right my my home environment has settled now things are working out and they Wen

raised and because I want to discern too oh I'm sorry is that um kind of like cptsd complex PTSD where someone was raising an abusive and terrible home where that is not what we're talking about people because you know some people will end up being diagnosed with borderline or cptsd or or PTSD and unless it was like a you know Satanic ritual abuse right you know then I could understand yeah that would be spiritual warfare yes

but Camille I'm thinking and and tell me if I'm wrong that it is you're Discerning like you've done everything the person's come in and now it's not like they came from a a background of total like high a score you know adverse childhood experience as a 10 because then we can't say that you know we could say that certain things might have evolved from that and it depends on the choices of the person right as well

like if they decided to go into psychedelics for five years of their Teenage life and they're yes having all these things happening you know those are things that mess with your spirit like absolutely so how do you just you know what I mean so let I want to because you're right like that is like you you've done everything possible yes and sometimes so here's where I know for some it's just like okay this just seems a

little heavy this just seems like a lot but sometimes it also is a matter of finding out what do this individual's like spiritual life look like so I've had some clients who just at the prompting of the holy spirit in the session I've I've said you know hey can you tell me a little bit about like have you you ever practice like and been involved in any kind of spiritual rituals or any types of things that

you you know I say it very you know um very much without judgment I'm just trying I'm curious and I need to know yeah so I'm asking them you know are there any belief practices that you have engaged in and um lately or and that you your family members have you know just getting a little bit more understanding and in some cases um I'll just give two examples in some cases the person has practiced nothing there's

like no nothing going on nothing that I know as far as my family know but and I'm thinking like two different instances but I love horror movies and I'm a great artist and all of the my art though has to do with like death dying Gore you know I just love it though that's that's just my favorite thing well in that particular case that person has not engaged any type of spiritual practice you know per se

but what you are allowing in to your eye gates in your ear Gates is all darkness and it is now affecting you right and it is now so I have had those instances occur where someone has experienced heightened what would look like paranoia um and heightened stress responses especially around bedtime and it was often times Associated from some of the things that they practicing or meditating on exactly or just consuming a large amount of it and

then on the other hand I have had individuals who have come from um certain certain things that were it was maybe a certain belief system or certain um rituals that they had been a part of or performed and essentially didn't know how to put it back in the box so it's like I I recognized that and we were able to talk through that it seems as though you may have called on something um to accomplish some

goal or something that you were wanting to do and now um that you called on it you kind of again the spirit realm has rules just like the Physical Realm has rules the spiritual realm can't just make you right can't so when people think of that they think like oh my gosh Something's Gonna jump on me or it doesn't work like that you have to come into agreeance you have to say hey I want to partner

with you so when you do certain rituals you're you're calling it like hey partner with me help me what accomplish whatever goal and sometimes then I have found um where clients are experiencing um problems after that uh that are it's stealing their peace um steing their Joy giving them nightmares yes yeah no and then or just that um heaviness in their pit of their stomach yes and I've seen that a few times where you know and

it's it's like if you're a Bel to me if you are a disciple of Jesus Christ in your not only in your mind but in your heart you know and you know we can be not possessed because this is what people think from horror Flix and think oh my she's possessed by the devil yes it's it's an oppression like you get oppressed and then it's a heavy feeling and you're just oh my gosh and it feels

like depression and it and and I could just speak about my own experiences because I know that I have wrestled with anxiety and depression most of my life and that is something hereditary from you know but I know there were times where I opened up some doors before I was a Christian and then I was having um sleep paralysis yes okay okay interesting that you should say that so another like an example when I was a

little girl I struggled with sleep paralysis now it just let's tell the audience what that is because some people are like what per no it's a scary thing where you're half awake scary right and you feel a demon on your chest okay so you tell yours and all yeah because they're like the audience is like what is going on but yeah so like you said you feel it yeah one of the thing I I saw it

yeah so it was like sometimes you're in this half dream half awake state and I can't move anything but my eyes I I learned as a little girl that if you breathe slowly yeah you won't feel like you're suffocating because I can't fully breathe right like I want to because I'm still kind of heavily like it's like I'm stuck there and I sometimes could see something that seemed a little scary to a young girl right um

that was like around thank God for my mother I cannot say that enough I know people like you know like give praises to their mom and stuff like that but she's awesome she introduced me to God at a young age and because of her experiences she would say if you ever have a bad dream call on Jesus you can call on them in your dreams like and she would say it enough where it it would kick

in and when I would use the name of Jesus it didn't always automatically wake me up but it would cause calm to come around me so until I could wake up I felt protected and so for me I didn't feel like anything was on my chest but I felt I was frozen I couldn't move at all it was so scary it is it is and then of course I researched it like because that's who I am

I like to research I it's my first episode was at 18 and it stopped at 29 when I got saved ah look at that so see there's a lot yes there's a lot attached to that now I know for a fact that there was a family member or two who were engaged in certain practices that probably ushered in a number of things that did not need to be ushered in in this book yeah and and and

and that was my I mean like I was at 18 I was a rebel I mean let me just tell you you know these are before Christ days but I did things you know party psychedelics I did so many things I was so into the new age when I say I was so into horoscopes I was so into crystals I was so into all that stuff and then I met my husband went to church I was

listening I was a preschool teacher listening to the stories of the teaching the preschoolers but I didn't I grew up Catholic and my grandma was um Santa she would practice Sania inter okay so see these all equal out so this is why spiritual warfare is and I noticed I've been think you know I I'm so thankful for Jesus Christ yeah and and my and me you that's why I was like I will dedicate my life to

you for the rest of my and it's not perfect I still had a struggle with addiction I still had a struggle with you know but I will never forget that last time that I saw and it was a being and I woke and I finally got and my husband waking up he's like I don't see anything and I'm like it's there and he's like oh my goodness honey you are losing it and then that was it

after that I'm I I went and I was like all right I have to like surrender your whole spirit and Life to Jesus Christ period that's true that that is true and the the in The Realm of Darkness yeah um you know the enemy knows that that's all you have to do so if if that's the one thing I can get you not to do then I I can just keep you twirling in circles for you

know and torturing you for the rest of your life because that's all you need you don't need any fancy things all you need is the name of Jesus and full submission to his will and his way an invitation to ask him into your heart that's all you need and that's that's so simple cuz people want to make it so difficult right they want to they when they make money off of it and they want to make

it this big Grand thing and no the Lord made it so so easy yes so easy he has made it so easy it's no Fan Fair it's no it's no like right now if you're a listener who's suffering and questioning like oh who is this Jesus or just just say Jesus are you here Jesus you know and and invite him in and it's not a magic pill people is something where you realize and you start reading

the word right Camille like so what do you do with clients that now that you've like spiritually discerned and you're going okay this is Warfare this is not we've done everything we've we've we've looked through every single possibility of what can happen because we're trained we're trained to do that what do you do now with now knowing you have that human being in front of you and you're dealing with spiritual warfare okay so here's the thing

there it goes to ways it's so much easier when my clients actually are believers in Christ because then we can go straight to the solution right then um so if the the client happens to be a believer in Christ then the first thing is providing information so you know we talk and actually I just had a session um earlier this morning where I was saying you know let's let's look at it this way so we have

some medical things that we have to look at we're going to see what the doctors have to say about that you'll have to talk to your psychiatrist once you get information from there and remember along the way you are going to continue to pray because God has the final say so you are going to invite him along everywhere you go and continue to pray to him and continue to lift up any concerns that you get from

the doctor from the psychiatrist because he has the final say and so those are some of the things that you know my clients continue to lift up the Lord talk to him pray read you know um your scripture because there are promises there are directions there are cautions in the Bible so we don't have to we don't have to worry about like oh my gosh I don't know what's going on or no there's some answers right

on in there let's start reading and um and so for some of my clients who are even like I haven't read in forever or the Bible is reallying it's like the Lord will meet you where you are there's nothing too hard for God the Bible says right so starts don't worry right you know right so right start in Psalms like and start praying those psalms over you and and your situation and I mean that's what I

I start I always start with Psalm 139 with my clients if they're Believers and they want the spiritual aspect I'm like you need to know who you are your identity in Christ that's Psalm 139 okay awesome so that's for the believer for my clients who they don't have the same belief system that I have they have maybe a different belief system or they may have none they might be a nihilist I've had a couple of clients

who were nihilistic and they just were like this is it it's just like we live and then we're gone and then that's it and so from that point they're not necessarily going to be open obviously to praying to a a God that they don't um that they don't serve that's where the ethics comes into play I'm not sitting here telling anybody well well then if you don't believe in Christ well then it's just not going to

work out for you so I don't know what else I'm I'm going to do for you like I don't do that at all no I don't that would be totally unethical we don't do that right but sometimes I am able to ask them you know if they feel like this particular practice if there's a practice that I pick up on do you think it's serving you well I'm noticing that when you talk about this or you

share this that is always leading us to having conversations about this this heaviness that you're feeling or this anxiety Rush is this still serving you well like so to get reflection on certain behaviors or if it happens to be like I have a a sweet sweet individual who said you know maybe if I maybe if I had some Faith this would work out a lot better and I was like are you interested in that and they're

like and I was like oh okay just just I've had a few like that too I've had an atheist come in and and you know and he's like I hear you're really good with cognitive behavioral therapy and I'm like yes and he's like that's all I want I'm like I don't want the Christians and you know he cursed and everything and I'm like that's fine like I'm train like this is not about me right this is

what people need to understand it's not about Camille as the therapist or Diana as the therapist we are here to do a service that is what you pay us for yeah it's not you know like it's like a medical doctor that you go in and he's checking your heart he's not sitting there like is it Jesus or whatever like what I don't want that right and so it's like okay so then I have an opportunity with

those clients who are not going to go the route of looking at it from a spiritual right side of of praying on their behalf of standing in the gap for them um and then also looking at some tools that they can continue to use some insight that they can continue to have some practices so it depends on what it is like I have clients who struggle with um like Suicidal Thoughts associated with just feeling like they're

nothing um very extremely low self-esteem or non-existent um because they had not been poured into the eles and so there are just like a lot of wounds that are still inside of them and they're really wondering who they are but they don't want to necessarily hear about Christ but um I can share with them I and and I've have said this I believe that everybody has been given gifts and talents to be used on this Earth

so you have great value let's look at how that was not validated so if everybody has great value then what's different about you nothing other than your origin your origin said that maybe you didn't have this or you wouldn't have that you're not good enough do you believe that though if everybody has value everybody has gifts and talents so sometimes what people don't even realize is that some of our time together still is coming from the

scripture because what I know is that the Lord has given everyone a measure of gifts and talents that's what the Bible says and right and I know that the Bible also says we're fearfully and wonderfully made so it couldn't be true that you were not here for any purpose but what I do know again because I know on my end on in my chair I know that the enemy wouldn't have you think that you could do

anything what and be effective in this world are you kidding me right so the idea is to steal kill and destroy anything that's within you so that you're not effective so then what we talk about is being effective having purpose identifying what your gifts and talents are putting plans in place so that can walk forward and all of that is actually scripture but that's not what they want that's okay we can still be effective and I

can still then pray for you in my time and in our time together we can talk about you know who you are and talk about steps in order to get you where you really want to be and work on reframing your thoughts and undoing what had um kind of kept you down whether it was other people's opinions or other people's speaking over you you know so that you can move forward and live a more fulfilled life

I love that oh my goodness C that's so good I love what I do I love what I do yeah yeah and you know like you're so right on about having that client like you we're able to do this to with anybody because our job is to what right as a Christian therapist or even if you're not a Christian therapist our job is to serve the human in front of us to become a better functioning human

being so they can prosper and in their gifts and talents like absolutely absolutely right and so I want to talk a little bit though now is is how boundaries can get blurred and you kind of already hit it like you already said no I know my ethics I know my grounds I know my boundaries but there's some that you know I have clients have come to me after they've gone to say a Christian counselor and they've

been stung really bad okay and it's due to because they got in there and the next thing it's like well the Christian counselor comes in with their denominational thought process yes yes does that make sense it does it's it's very legalistic right yes yes very legalistic and how or they come in with their own unhealed stuff oh yeah now that's yeah that's dangerous yeah or just like understanding like um there's something called ntic counseling oh I've

not heard of that okay and it's bibl along the lines of new thought or no it's uh biblical counseling the way Jay Adams I think is his name and that a lot of people go by that structure of okay counseling and a lot of people out there don't know they're like I'm a Christian I want counseling and then they just go to these places and it could cause more guilt and shame on top of the human

yes um instead of the actual tool set of psychology because that's the thing people do not want to mix psychology and theology yes that's yeah that is true I I would agree people don't want to do that and here's the going back to just what you said about the experiences that some people have had um anytime that you are sitting in of somebody and you are bearing all of your secrets all of your thoughts um you

want to make sure to put in protective measures and that those protective measures are ensuring that you know who you're going to see because even for th for those who are Christians or even um for those who may align this with with something else for those who are Christians the Bible says we are to test the spirit that means I might say I am a Christian counselor um you you want to ask some questions about that

don't take me up my word find out like what does that mean um how am I supposed to be practicing because everyone who who says they are something um won't always be the thing that they say they are now if you happen to be someone who's like all right yeah well I don't I don't believe in all the words so I know you said it says test the spirit so then what else do I do and

it's like all right ask questions that's just just ask questions right the make sure that um you know if you are looking for a certain type of counselor that just do your research and make sure that they can provide that that what they say um you know if they say they're a Christian counselor I would also want to see like hey on their website does it like explain that a bit do we kind of do I

get more why because saying I'm a Christian counselor is just as good as me asking you hey how you doing today and you're like good good could mean I got three hours of sleep because usually I only get one I you know you know I didn't stub my toe five times only stub my toe four you know I don't know what that means anymore unfortunately and it is kind of sad but um but you do want

to just make sure that you know who you're going to and and I think for those who those counselors who are Christians who might be listening to this episode you know it's important to just know your boundaries and sometimes um sometimes in a desire to want to help we do too much and um and we have to then also check ourselves that we're not trying to be their savior because they already have a savior we are

just the tool that he uses to help his and he doesn't even need us it's just that he he has us living this experience in a community way right and so don't don't go beyond the boundaries it can mess you up ethically it can mess other people up and um and cause a lot of trouble to come your way or someone else's way they have a savior and so do as much as you are supposed to

do within your calling and within your professional boundaries and know that the Lord will do all the rest because he can reach all the places we can never reach yeah yeah so good Camille oh my goodness this is great so let's talk about tools you know because I want to leave the audience with some practical faith-based tools or strategies that you recommend as Christian counselors to use when there's either a sense of uh spiritual warfare or

not even that just good tools like that we can utilize in order to become the best version of ourselves as therapists yeah okay so for the Christian counselors the very first thing is going to be read your Bible um and I know that some sometimes that's like a little daunting but I think um I was I was putting something out I don't know if it was podcast I can't remember right now but either way I'm like

do you know your DSM better than you know your Bible right you know and it's like you know so the idea is start reading it because there are there are instructions in it that'll help you help others and also check yourself like you know it's like all right if pride is creeping in there because you're like I'm rocking this counseling thing and people love me and let me just let me help and do all the things

and it's like oh ring it back you know right you know yeah well listen I just read a book uh in December by David br and I don't know how it came across I got curious cuz I read a lot of books and it was about the gift of being yourself and I last year I W I went through quite a few trials I mean and in the beginning of this year as well but the book

had a chapter and it was talking about Pride disguised as service ooh and I'm reading that and I'm like oh my goodness Lord is that a blind side of mine oh my goodness and I just had to repent and cry and that book still to this day mes I highlighted it and I'm like I'm trying to get him on my show bu different books and to me though Camille like that is something we have to know

our why why did we come into this because honestly I have seen you know how we say flesh and spirit yes so to some of my clients that don't know the Lord or don't want that part you know the biblical anything I talk about ego and humility okay okay and that resonates with them yes but do you get it like the humility would be the spirit the ego would be the flesh just the person yeah and

that to me I think it's so important especially if we are claiming the name of Christ that like you said to read his word in context AB completely because I've seen that too I guess because I have quite a few clients that have had uh religious abuse that came to me and and it was from the Christians you know like churches different kind of denomination churches and it turns out like they were treated you know it

was more of a business than it was an actual church and that's a big deal that's happening out there in the world right now Camille like a lot of people when you say you're a Christian counselor like oh well I had I had you know religious abuse well you know interesting so when you even talk about that man we could just go so so many places with it but you know like even even the Bible talks

about how like um the wolf is going to basically enter the church and spare no sheep right and so it's just like all of so from obviously from a Christian perspective and a believer in the Bible then what we know is that all of this is is to continue to turn people's hearts away from God because at the end of the day if the kingdom of darkness can get as many people out of God's hand um

that's the goal and it's going to come in the form of so many different things I will tell you this and I've and the only person who knows is like just like my mom and my my husband my mom because she told me um and then my husband I've never shared this before um in our family there was a step-grandfather who was a pastor of a church and who was abusing my grandmother God for years yeah

that happen can you imagine what that would do to somebody's belief in Christ yes right and so there are there are wolves yes terrorizing the Sheep yes holding up their Bibles in their hands all throughout the week yeah and so one of the things that sometimes is hard and I know I'm deviating I'm gonna come back to the the other um one of the things that is hard is for people to understand Christ when they're looking

at at people oh it's like oh you're not going to find them in the people that's right because the people need Christ so you got you're gonna have to form a relationship with with God directly because he's the one who can help you and heal you because darkness is going to come and use anyone who's willing to be used it does not discriminate um and so there's there's just there's a lot of hurt and harm that

unfortunately people have experienced inside of the church it's wild it is it is and and I see a a movement now um have you ever heard of the Royce report r o Ys report I'm I'm not well because on YouTube like you know how algorithms are so I watch one thing it'll bring you other thing so like that's how I found you like okay okay you know but but I was listening because there's quite a few

pastors that are falling and I don't want to I don't want that to be happening I don't you know what I mean and I'm not a fruit sniffer for those that don't understand what fruit sniffing is it's like Christians that sit there and and and are pointing fingers and going look at then they're you know right and so I'm it's not that it is though I have seen and experienced personally uh Church hurt and spiritual abuse

as well where the word was used against me in ways that I'm like wait and this is why I dove in and I'm sitting there like reading I'm like wait it doesn't say that like where are you getting you taking that one verse and trying to ress me because I'm a woman or whatever it is in context yeah yes out of context so this is this is what Camille's talking about know your word no yes that's

it that's the first that's the very first step when we're like okay well how do we actually then address spiritual warfare um know your word and here's the thing also build relationship with God if you hadn't already um like I don't know you know so some individuals may feel like yeah I have a belief but when you are talking about like when you're talking about dealing with the Enemy that's coming into your practice that is unseen

then in the spiritual realm you have to have your whole armor on yes because this is not going it's not GNA be like okay well I'm gonna just do do this little like pity Pat thing and say a quick little prayer like oh yeah I heard prayer prayer supposed to kind of work it out but your heart is not really calling on on the Lord right yeah um and the enemy can tell do you know the

the um who was it it was the the sons of Stephen anyway there was a group of individuals in the Bible who were trying to cast a demon out of this man and they decided to do it using the name of Christ but they were like um you know come out in the name of the god that Paul talks about like you know like they were it was just like they didn't have any relationship with him

they didn't really know the Lord they didn't serve him you know or anything like that but they were trying to use his name superficially you know just for their own for their own benefit and what happened was the you know the man who was possessed just jumped on them beat them all up had them running out the house yeah you can look it up the Bible is Bible got all kinds of stories I know I know

um but the warning in that is saying that if you are going to really come against darkness that may show up in your practice you have to be armored for real and you need to have real relationships so that the Holy Spirit can guard you guard the individual and the space that you are operating in it has to be about real relationship right it's not just about lip service so yes know your word build real relationship

with the Lord and then for your client give them the tools so that they can also be empowered these are things for them as well depending on what they're dealing with armor them up with scriptures so if there happens to be individuals who are feeling defeated like theirs there's nothing to their life or I had somebody tell me they were like I saw a picture of my future and they told me where it was going to

be and how they were going to end up and it was all negative and it was all destruction and they were really nervous because they thought well I saw this so this probably is really real and so I'm like okay let's let's look at some scriptures where the Lord talks to you about who you really are in him and let's look at scriptures where he says you know turn all your anxieties over search My Heart Lord

you know and and ask him to come in you know um and help you let's go ahead and talk about some prayers that you can start praying and some time that you can take out to to kind of really build up with the father and and I also let them know that while you're doing this it might get a bit Rocky before it gets smooth um so just know that you know if you happen to be

praying to the Lord and you're trying to submit to him more and you're trying to build better relationship with him just know Darkness doesn't like that could start kicking up some stuff that's all right just keep on hanging with the Lord right you know um so you know information for our clients and giving them some steps so that they're informed of what this might look like to pray and and then the other thing too I'm very

clear on know when to refer them them to their own church or if they don't have a church letting them know that they may they may want to seek out some group supports that are aligned with their faith in Christ so that they are not doing this alone right Community is so important and that's one thing 2020 did to many people is kept them lonely and this is why anxi I mean one of the reasons why

anxiety and depression has gone through the roof abolutely isolation that's exactly what Satan wants is to isolate you oh yeah to isolate you to keep you in that thought process to steal kill and destroy because he's that is the only purpose he's here for to steal kill and destroy every relationship on this Earth including the one with yourself yes and that's that's that's it that's the game plan his his his game plan is rinse and repeat

yeah and so and so then for ourselves we also want to be in connection with other individuals who believe like us and are practicing so that we can make sure that we have accountability if we are getting a little too full of ourselves or if we aren't like staying on top of things we have someone who's like hey I know I know the group and I'm I'm going to invite you if you want to come in

is uh the Christian mental health professionals of Florida but even if you don't practice in Florida you have your podcast and I just want you to um meet some would bew say must be about 70 to 75 of us in there maybe more I have no idea um I love to but but that that group right there listen if I did not have that group I do not think I would be able to be a Christian

counsel like I could go back to the alternative schools and everything and I knew how to function in that because that's all I did but being because I am solo okay yes I that's right so you got to keep you got to keep connected because that solo experience is like yes and to pray and find you know within that group I have a handful of people that I know like hey I I I need prayer right

now can you pray for me and I've gone through some stuff and they've been they've had my back so if you're a Christian therapist or wanting to become because I have interns okay yes you know and they're wanting to become it's just You' got to figure out your own stuff first it is right and don't think that your denomination is the only right way you have to understand Biblical history yes yes because you come in so

I'm a Christian I grew up in this faith I'm like okay great since you were a child yes that's wonderful and I'm and I'm happy that you had that but is that your beliefs or is that the beliefs of your parents right right because do you have a relationship with him yourself have you submitted to him yourself because that's what you've then made the choice to do yeah you're so right on that one because we can

have uh what our parents told us to do get up and go to Sunday school go to church and all that but when did it start becoming your choice yeah when were you challenged enough where you had L you know you were in Lamentations or EC Ecclesiastes where you realize like you were joking for a second or two and you still hung on hello oh my goodness you know and especially if you're counseling like you know

we want we go into this field because we want to help we also want to figure out our own stuff sometimes it's God's like you're going because honestly like I was in a different career before I was called back to being a therapist and now I I love that he's bringing what I was doing along with being a therapist and now this is how this podcast was born yep because he's working it all for the good

right so that's it it's for him not for me right so but I also have to have my accountability right like I have people be like all right Diana you need to calm yourself down like those are the those people are so precious because like they they're comfortable enough in the relationship that you have that they're like hey don't bite my head off but let me just kind of tell you something real quick you know you

know so it's like we we need that we need that level of honesty and truth and I like just to jump in real quick because you mentioned something so important like individuals who have gone to Christian Counseling and that they've had some poor experiences or um you know they've been told you know well if you don't do very kind of legalistic well if you don't do do this well then then this is going to happen or

it's sin it's your sin problem and that is why you're suffering and you have depression anxiety it's your sin it's your sin and that and then they're like oh oh my go and you know what I mean they're trying to get help but they're pointing to sin constantly it's in biblical only they don't even touch psychology so see that's where one of the things and I know everybody has to find their way that they work with

their clients but one of the things that the Lord just helps me do just with my natural personality is like to address hard topics but with like Grace cuz Lord knows I need lots of Grace and I've been given lots of Grace so it's like so it's so it's like just with Grace I for example you have a client um they're in a relationship where there's infidelity involved but they are Christian and and so I remember

a conversation where I was like can I push a little I I oftentimes say that um before I'm going to say something difficult and so I just kind of want to make sure that clients don't get blindsided so I'm like can I push a little and so they're like okay I'm like all right now I know that you're experiencing this heightened anxiety surrounding this thing that happens to be the infidelity and and some things that happen

within it and you're saying but God said he will give you the desires of your heart and I'm like but God didn't coign on that because that's actually not how the word use and I literally will say it just like that and I'm like oh what do you think about that right you know and so so it's because one of the things that we have to remember is that we are not different um how do I

want to say this in in God's eyes because we all need a Savor the the Bible says all have sinned and fallen short that's me too I have to check me too I'm no better than you I just happen to have been given a gift and talent that is being used right now but I have to check myself less I just fall way over to the right or too far to the left so I'm not coming

judging you saying like oh like you're not a very good Christian right now instead I'm just saying hey as like a fellow brother or sister in Christ can I just tell you something about what you just shared and so then and then I'll step back because again this is counseling and I am not to force my my anything on the other person I need their Buy in at all times or it's a it's not a go

so after I tell you that hey guys didn't really coign on that because that's not what that scripture means and that may also be why you find yourself in this chaotic Loop but I don't know what do you think about that do you still want to kind of move forward aligning your your behaviors with your faith got a much different response than if I were to have just been like well I mean you're you're sinning that's

why you're here because the truth be told that doesn't always tell me where to go you're say well okay that's not giving any tools and How about if the person thinks they're like a Christian because they grew up in it but they really don't know because they never really cracked open the Bible you know what I mean like it's it's more of a cultural thing then you know because it's it's not to break us it's like

man if you're doing something that doesn't align with the faith that you claim okay but let me just maybe you didn't know um maybe you just use the scripture out of context let me help you but then let me also say you know now tell me how does that how does that hit you when I say that cuz I know that it might be hard to kind of lean out of this Behavior but I am just

letting you know the Lord is not not going to coign on that now he's not he's not going to leave you because word said he won't leave you or forsake you but but that is that is actually not something he is going to approve how does that hit you because I know that might be hard I know that might be a struggle to hear that and then we can even process the struggle that that ensues about

where you're at and at the end of the day if you decide to stay in that place then guess what it doesn't mean that All Is Lost for you it means that maybe in this period of time seeds were planted some solutions were given and on the way you will meet other people and if you really continue to desire a relationship with God he is big enough to draw you right on into him maybe it wasn't

for me in this session right but maybe it the seeds were planted and now it's going to be watered somewhere else down the line with someone else right so we we want to also just make sure that we're checking ourselves not to get so frustrated in what we're doing or maybe so frustrated when we see things happening that don't align with his word that we start to get a little too harsh um more harsh than maybe

Christ was himself wow so it's like so you know because he dealt with all the things um and so how did he deal with them you know oftentimes with grace and mercy I mean there was that one time he braided the Whip and started getting on people who were exchanging money and yes yes but we're talking about Grace for The Afflicted you know yes which there is a book called Grace The Afflicted that I read when

I first became uh a therapist even before I I had my private practice just to understand because you know trying to understand psychology and and Theology and in in context and what we're supposed to be doing and and how do how do we help people that are suffering and you know it it to me and understanding that every human being that comes even though we're all made in the image of Christ we all do have uniess

like you said you know like we have unique gifts and talents um you know and then spiritual warfare like it's like what are you using your five senses this is what I used to tell the teenagers how are you using your five senses and they're like what I'm like name them you know hearing seeing smelling tasting touching okay now are you using those five senses to heal yourself or hurt yourself okay okay yes and that's it

that was the simplest Middle School kind of mentality and I still used that statement yes break it down and make it plain right and they're just like and then it makes them I'm like now be aware be that curious Observer which means be still and know who God is being still because we live in a culture and a society that is on the and it's just getting more and more on the go more and more Angry

more and more I mean like get off social media go hug a tree yes listen to a bird smell fresh air you know like and then you know drink some water instead of Mountain Dew like you know do something absolutely right because God made all these cells inside our body to love us so we can do his and bring his kingdom forward yes yes Camille so listen I probably could sit here and talk to you for

another another hour we probably could look I try to restrain myself I told you I'm the one who had like talks too much on the report card like I can I can talk I got I got uh your daughter has no self-control and the nuns would would would with the with the ruler over my hand every day oh that's funny that was in Catholic school I went to Catholic school for a couple of years yes I

was in the Catholic class and that must have been so confus use Baptist in the Catholic school I love it but listen there are Christians in every denomination I have met them and then there are wolves and sheep's clothing in every denominations I met them too and to so to me it's like be responsible for yourself by understanding who you are in the Lord right opening up the word being still in the moment that's why it's

called the present right because be the present moment and figure out why you're here because each one of us are here for a reason yes and and stop with the comparison because we compare our even as therapists I'm gonna be honest like we compare like oh my gosh so and so has got 30 clients this week and I could barely just go through 10 I must stink as a therapist and it's true you have to like

it it will steal your joy because it's like oh wait wait wait pull ourselves back everybody's on their own path everyone's own some people have children some people don't have some people's children are adults some people are like you know people are doing so many things that then allow them to do the work that they're supposed to be doing on this Earth so yeah I love that you said that yeah yeah so anyway listen how can

people get a hold of you and when do you drop uh your episodes for your podcast and and tell the audience who you you know where they could find you and everything oh yes okay so um the Christ and private practice podcast goes out every Tuesday every now and again it's a Wednesday but it's every Tuesday and you can definitely find me at Christ inprivate practice.com and um kind of hang out over there or join our

Facebook group and then I'm in private practice here in Georgia I'm licensed in Georgia only and my P private practice is healing Psychotherapy practices of Georgia or healing Psychotherapy ga.com so yes I'd love to connect that would be wonderful any final words before we say goodbye no thank you so much for just inviting me on the show to all of your listeners thank you for having me thank you for staying and and kind of like looking

at and listening to our conversation please be encouraged you're doing wonderful work you're doing healing work and it is needed don't ever think for a second that it's not yeah and if you're not doing the work any in Florida and need help call me and if you're in Georgia and need help call Camille absolutely yes if you're not doing the work that's right and you need help and you need some guidance in mentorship or you know

um just find us on our website and I just hope that this episode really en enlightened you helped you understand more things as a practitioner and also if you're not if you're just a person just listening and curious about Christian counseling that maybe we answered some of your questions so hopefully we did and that you don't feel alone and remember that Jesus loves you so trust in the Lord guard your heart and renew your mind bye

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thank you