The Root Cause of Cancer: Paul Leendertse's 15-Step Real-Self Healing Process for Mind-Body Recovery

Hello there, fearfully and wonderfully made human. You're listening to the Holistic Counselor Podcast, where faith, science, and holistic healing intersect. I'm your host, Diana S. Rice, licensed mental health counselor and certified integrative mental health professional. I'm passionate about breaking the stigma around mental health, especially in faith communities and diverse cultures, and bringing you deep, thought-provoking conversations with experts who can help you heal, grow, and thrive.

Today's episode is one that's deeply personal for me. Cancer has been on my radar for decades. Ever since losing a childhood friend to leukemia back in the 70s, my father on Christmas Day in 2002, my sister in September of 2023, and my mother just this past February.

These experiences have fueled my desire to understand this disease from every angle. So when I heard Paul Leanertsy, I don't know if I said that right, Paul.

It's close. Close enough. It's Leanerts.

Lean Dirts. I said it right the first time. All right. So when I heard Paul Leanerts from the root cause institute speak on a podcast about cancer in a way I had never heard before, I was intrigued. Paul is the author and pioneer behind the root cause of cancer with over 16 years of dedicated experience exploring the link between psycho emotional stress and the development of cancer.

Over the course of a decade, he worked closely with individuals, often with latestage cancer in 3-week residency settings, observing a consistent pattern. Unresolved emotional stress, trauma, and life challenges often preceded cancer diagnosises. And when these underlying factors were addressed, clients experienced profound healing with some even seeing their cancer disappear.

From this lived experience, Paul developed his 15step real self-healing process and an online root cause assessment to help clients identify the deeper emotional factors linked to their illness and map out a path toward resolution, transformation, and healing. His work has evolved into two comprehensive online programs, the root cause and the accelerated self-healing course, equipping both practitioners and individuals navigating cancer with the tools to heal from within.

I want to be clear, cancer is devastating and I deeply respect the lifesaving advancements of modern medicine. But I also believe in empowering people with informed consent and awareness of other healing paths, including those outside conventional protocols because every journey is unique. Saying all that, I want to welcome Paul and his beautiful wife Arya to the podcast.

Thanks for being here, guys.

Thanks so much. Thanks for having us. I really appreciate your introduction, too, and um acknowledging some things there about cancer like it's such a sensitive topic and um I didn't realize that you had lost family members recently.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That that's been a journey. Like I just stated, it's been wow. And it's a wakeup call and I've and I've done a lot of research. I read books, especially there was one book, I don't know if you know who Chris Walk is and Chris beat cancer,

that's I did a deep dive into that for a while and I'm like, man, he made me see things. So when I heard you speaking and you started talking about psycho emotional and I'm like, man, this this this guy gets it. I wonder if he's getting crucified yet.

But I'm sorry. I'm just kidding because you know you go against uh the grain of thinking about things. So tell me I want to know like how did you come to do this work?

Um well I I want to answer that question. I I want also to say thanks for acknowledging the crucifying thing because I have had to learn over the years, you know, in the beginning when I when I started to discover what I really think is going on um and I'll share more about why I believe so strongly

that um I thought that humanity would be like oh my god I want to know more about this. Let's start applying this. Let's start making changes. And actually there's quite a few roadblocks that you can run into. you know, it's it's uh for so many different reasons.

So many reasons. Um sometimes people don't want to talk about cancer because of the loss that they've experienced related to it. So they don't even want to talk about this, you know.

Yeah.

Um of course there's vested interests financially in the whole war on cancer, you know, cancer's big money. Um

and then there's all kinds of belief systems. The number of belief systems about cancer, like the different cures out there, the things that are being, you know, people believe this is the cure, that's the cure. Um man, it was like, wow, this is tough.

So I ended up founding root cause institute and I now just take the approach where if someone wants to learn this,

here it is. You know, we've got the the training for it. We've got the tools. I want to share what I've learned over all these years like it's it's been 17 years now actually and um yes uh cancer can disappear when you resolve the root cause once you start getting into the deeper actual cause of it which really is um chronic stress that has accumulated in our physical bodies through our emotional connection through through the emotional connection to our body

right

you a lot of people have heard of the not everyone but it's kind of common to hear of the mind body connection Yes. And and and a lot of people don't. Honestly, Paul, like I think that too because I'm a therapist and integrative therapist, right?

And so the thing is we assume that people know these things because we've done it the work for so long in this field, right? You're in your field, I'm in mine. And so that's the thing like no, like a lot of people don't know.

I'm I'm that's why I started this podcast because many people have, you know, like they're busy or the the TV or whatever the media, especially now with the rectangles and the social media, the algorithm, whatever it is. So, people really don't know about like adverse childhood experiences or the body keeps the score or what you're about to go into, I'm sure.

Yeah. And so, I want people to understand what the mindbody connection is. If you don't know what this is, some people are going to hear and say, "Oh my goodness, she's talking about this again." But we have people out there that don't know.

They're going to click on this episode and be like, "What are they talking about?

How do we how do we make it for them to understand without sounding woo woo or their logical brain shut it down because they're think that, you know, you got to have 1 plus 1 equals two, right?

So go ahead.

Let's try. Well, you know, I I have so much compassion because I used to think that as a as a holistic lifestyle coach, I started as a coach in 2006 or something, 2004.

And back then, I was hyperfocused on physical things. I just like I'm gonna learn everything about physical stuff, you know, organic food, don't use a microwave, make sure you detox your body, essential oils, not chemicals in not chemical fragrances, like you know, the the list is huge.

All these physical things,

right?

But um then I ran into so many challenges, so many health challenges either in myself or in my family that could not be resolved with all this physical stuff. It just couldn't. And none of the uh professionals that we went to like chiropractors, naturopaths, oncologists worked uh for the symptoms I had or for the symptoms that my family had.

And two people in my family died of cancer. And I had symptoms of um like skin breakouts and chronic back pain to the point where I just could not work anymore. I had to just lay in bed for a week and even resting for a week didn't fix it.

Uh and and you know then after I lost this is the thing it's like often times it's only after a lot of pain after a lot of like losses that we then start to question stuff.

Yep.

And so I lost a lot of things but but the the the gift in it is that it started to wake me up to the deeper stuff. uh the the the mental which we just mentioned the mind body connection but now the emotion body connection

and the and the and the whole realm of spirituality like what even is that you know what is spirituality how do we have a relationship with God how do we grow in relationships how do we grow through relationships and that that's a lot of what Ari and I teach now is how to grow through the challenges of life that we all inevitably end up facing we end up facing challenges related to love,

challenges related to money, to to power, to purpose in life, to, you know, sexual challenges. Um, there's a lot we can face, you know, so we have to grow through those challenges. If we don't, we will accumulate stress. It will start to build.

We will start to carry it. And it's one of the ways that humans survive. We we learn how to adapt, you know, how to um cope.

And a lot of it's just sort of instinctual. A lot of it is sort of unconscious. And then bam, we have a tumor one day. And we think that the tumor based on society's belief systems is like uh you know, bad luck, which isn't very scientific, but a lot of times I've heard clients tell me their doctor tells them it's just bad luck.

Wow. Um al but of course like the scientific explanation it's a genetic thing

right

but before I go too far I just want to um introduce Arya uh Arya joined me as well so she's been I can just talk and talk and talk I'm very passionate about this so is Arya so I got to give her some space and she's very wise

I really appreciate her joining up with me. So we've been together almost 7 years now. Uh she's worked alongside me at Wheel of Life, which is what our place was called before, where we had people with cancer live with us.

Wow.

Uh yeah, we just worked one-on-one, well, like the two of us with one client with cancer, and they would be with us for 3 weeks. Uh it varied, sometimes a little longer, sometimes shorter.

And so she started to see people's cancer disappearing.

Like, how can this possibly be? I mean, we're not we're you know, we're not doing any kind of treatment. In fact, the people that came to see us had already done numerous treatments. And what often times happens is cancer comes back.

Yeah.

And I and I want to understand when you say treatment, let's let's um have the audience understand what kind because to me like when you say treatment, you know, was it the conventional treatment, the westernized way of doing things where you're, you know, um there's there's a quite a few ways of doing it, but was it that way or was it like okay now you know like Suzanne Summers way or or a different or Chris War's

way like you know because that's the thing that's what I try to get people to understand that they are they're fearfully and wonderfully made in the in their image bearsers of God.

At the same time, we all have our own unique biology, psychology, and theology. And we have to get that all in order in my opinion, which would be, you know, really doing the deep work inside

to figure all that out. So, when you say, you know, what treatment, like what were you talking about? Where is it different kinds of treatments? because I I don't want to throw anybody under the bus either because, you know, I've I've seen people get cured by going through their westernized conventional cancer treatment.

My sister was one of them. She had, you know, stage three breast cancer and uh you know, she was but to me like she she spent many years in that modality for a long time. It was like 14 years of her going through cancer and then finally bone cancer is what got her.

Ah, okay.

Okay. So that's what I want to understand more is like the whole when you say treatment, what was it? What were they doing? Like they came and stayed with you for three weeks. I'm like, okay, what were you doing there? Were you like preparing the meals as well or were you doing the I mean because I understand the emotional side of things, but what else was being done?

Uh this is such a good question. Okay. Um Arya, can you speak in a moment? I'm going to answer the question and then Okay.

Um yeah. So that's such a great question because what I ended up eventually doing is neither traditional approaches to cancer like like so so obviously like I'm not an oncologist so we so the clients that came they were not doing things like chemotherapy radiation but they had already tried that

okay

and then just like what you shared their cancer just kept coming back and it was getting worse and then now they were told nothing could be done so most of the people that we worked with were stage four and had given up on everything else except what we're talking about now.

So that's how it really revealed stuff to me because people started healing. I was like, "Wait, when people stop doing all the other stuff, like they're not doing that and then they start this then they heal like how does that work?" Right?

Yeah.

And so what I want to point out is that we weren't even doing alternative stuff. So sometimes this is hard for people to wrap their mind around because the the the beliefs about cancer are so far off from like how it actually works.

It's kind of shocking.

But essentially like what humanity kind of has believed now for like a hundred years in the war on cancer is that

we have to destroy this cancer,

right?

Um something has gone wrong genetically or there's something wrong with this cell and we have to destroy it. So then you have uh the traditional approach which is destroy it directly with like kind of harsh stuff

and then try not to destroy the person you know and then and then the alternative is like no no no there's a way to do this in a healthy manner let's try to build the immune system through diet juicing stuff like that but guess what that doesn't work either long term

so what I've seen and what I've learned through personal observations and experience is that

neither of those things is getting to the root of it because It's all physical. You know, you try to destroy cancer with chemotherapy, it's just a physical thing. You try to juice to get rid of cancer, it's a physical thing.

Mhm.

But what if cancer isn't physical? What if our emotional well-being? And what's going on even deeper in our soul? What if there's some spiritual stuff like are we fulfilled in our life? Um is love flowing through our energy field? Do we feel stable in life, safe, confident in life?

Do we feel free? Basically, is our cup running over? Like, if you use some spiritual language, it's like, you know, in the Bible, it says our cup must runth over.

Yeah.

Well, why why does the Bible teach that our cup must runth over? Because when it's not and and what and that doesn't mean money. It doesn't mean like we have to have a whole bunch of money. It's like we need to really truly be

sort of whole and we got to define what that is. But like a a kind of obvious, you know, we can kind of intuitively understand what it means to be whole and then we won't develop symptoms in our body. But also if we have developed symptoms, we can reverse that by figuring out why we're not whole and then learning how to become whole in all these deeper ways.

And then miraculously, but honestly, this is just how the body works. The body's symptoms disappear. And that includes cancer. That includes cancer. Um, so I hope I answered your question. Uh, does that doesn't answer your question?

Yeah, I think we're going to keep uh I'm going to keep asking questions, but I want Arya to to tell me what she's thinking right now as she's listening to us speak. Like what's coming up for her as she as she's listening that she could explain it as well?

Because you're right, Paul. like before we hit record, he's like, "No, she's I love it. I love that the two of you understand like, okay, this is the way my brain and my personality sees it and how the masculine sees it. Now, here comes the female part of it, which I love, Arya."

So, I'm kind of This is the first time I've ever had two people at one time on my podcast. So, um, go ahead, Arya, like or Ari or I don't know, do we want to call you Ari or Yeah, Arya is great. I'm happy to jump in.

So I would really like to acknowledge some of what you said Diana because you're saying you have seen some benefit from people using these conventional approaches or perhaps even the alternative approaches and I would want to 100% acknowledge that because that's what we've seen too.

What we've realized over time though most often that benefit is temporary. Mhm.

So like you shared with your sister, she got treatment and it got rid of her breast cancer and we have seen this. We have seen people do treatment and the cancer disappears.

But what Paul mentioned earlier is how it doesn't get to the psycho emotional root of it though because the treatment's physical. So then it can reappear

and sometimes there's stories of people and there's actually one example of that in my family. She had breast cancer. she did treatment and it's I think it's been like 15 years or more and it hasn't come back. So sometimes it can be that but in that case I would not say that the treatment cured it.

I would say that the treatment destroyed it but she changed something in her life

that actually resolved it emotionally and our lives can change a lot.

Yes. And um we've had had clients and students also that said I got cancer and when I got the diagnosis I knew I had to move to the other side of the country.

Wow.

And then they did that and they didn't do treatments and the cancer went away. So sometimes people have this really strong intuitive hint or they're like whoa now I know I need to leave my job. I've been needing to do that forever or I know this relationship isn't good for me.

I need to leave it. It's not always that intense though that we need to like move away and do something and do 180 degrees in you know changing our life completely. Sometimes we can resolve a challenge with a partner. Sometimes we can talk to our boss and create recreate peace at the job.

Recreate a feeling of wholeness.

Sometimes we don't have to move to the other country but we have to get into a new beautiful routine and find the beauty around us. But it is very supportive to make a big change in our lives very often because it has this energy of like a fresh start.

Imagine if you're like drinking coffee every day and you want to stop. It gets easier if you go on vacation and you don't have the same coffee maker. You don't have the same smells.

So changing because ultimately if we want to feel whole, if we want to have abundance in our life, if we want to have a cup running over like Paul said, we need to change in some way how we interact with our life, how we interact with people in our life, our relationship with oursel, our relationship to faith.

So change is really important in that process.

It is.

Well, what it sounds like you're talking about is neuroplasticity.

It's rewiring the brain.

And I guess because I'm so that's basically you know I'm cognitive behavioral therapist internal family systems and and neuroplasticity and I've done a lot of work because of listen when when this first came around like I it's always been in my head of one day I'm going to die just because of what happened to me in elementary school with my friend right watching you know appear at that young of age and no one explained to me

what was happening I just you know she went bald and then she disappeared and then when I asked questions I wasn't told answers.

That's when I started going, okay, like this is how life is. You know, you mature faster than others in certain ways. Um, and then of course when my sister was I was probably in my early 30s and then with my dad and just certain things that I s and then you know that's the that's that's the situation.

I can live in fear false evidence appearing real which will mess up my cells which makes me pick up that energy what you're talking about. Right. But I've done work enough where I don't fear it at all. It's it's I face everything in rise now when it comes to cancer.

Like I've had my own kind of scares. But I I'm like all right let me you know it's like a wakeup call. So I want to understand though now your 15step re you know real self-healing process. So when I saw that I'm like 15 step kind of reminds me of the the clients that I work with in AA, right?

Like I have clients that come out of AA with their 12step program and sometimes I think that 12step program would totally work with those that aren't addicts too like because we have you know sometimes we need those things. So tell me about this 15step real self-healing process.

What is that and and like how did that start?

Ah, it's really interesting you brought up addiction too because I just started working with someone as well, helping someone with really serious addiction that like for like street drugs and really really dangerous stuff like has um almost died and has seen friends die of addictions and um they just did the 15step process and now they've been clean for I think they're on day 12 or something which is a really big deal. um to be clean and and I mean clean not even having alcohol in place of the hard drugs.

So

or cigarettes or coffee there they're there they're there's still like with full transparency there's still smoking pot here and there.

Okay.

But you know you know uh it's not about marijuana. No

we got to we got to like go at a pace that's realistic here. But this is huge, you know, cuz this is a hardcore street drug addiction for

how many years? Like 25 years or something.

Oh my word.

Yeah. So this this 15step process, it's really about, you know, healing at the roots of it. And I want to point something out when we're talking about psycho emotional stuff.

Yeah.

What does that mean? Is really just like what kind of emotional stress is happening to us like going on inside of us? what kind of what kind of stressful thoughts are happening to us or going on for us and and I don't just mean we are choosing to think negative.

There's a lot of like power of the mind stuff in the alternative world and in society where like you got to change your thinking

and of course that's uh helpful like it's not helpful to just be going over negative thinking all the time but we teach something very different. It's more like soul work

because when you when you make changes at the soul level, at the spiritual level and and really make changes in your life so that those so that your life becomes more in alignment with truth and love and freedom and happiness,

then positive thoughts come as a result,

you know, rather than trying to think our way through unresolved stuff.

Yeah. And you have to be careful with that too because there's spiritual bypassing that I've seen a lot too.

Exactly. Yeah. And suppression. That's that's one of the ways we suppress is with our mind, you know. We just think like, okay, no, this isn't as bad as it is, but then we're abandoning

our soul, which is saying this is bad actually. This needs to change, you know.

Okay.

So, the 15ckled negative. We have to acknowledge what's not good for us, right? Rather than trying to make it right somehow. Like if I'm in a job that I don't like, I have to actually acknowledge that. I have to really connect to it.

Or if something in my relationship doesn't feel good, it won't get resolved if I just start thinking positive about it. Then I don't actually connect with my partner about it and start changing it and start resolving it. So it's about acknowledging what doesn't feel good.

But then the positive thinking can sort of be more an aid in the change process like, yeah, I can change that. I can do something about it. I have power over my life. I can really turn this into something good. Yeah. No. Yeah.

That's the thing is where u many ignore because that's a disassociation at times. we get the bad news and it's how we get bad news too honestly because that's something I kind of understood working in the field that I do is like a doctor could come to Paul or Ari or me and say hey you got cancer and then whatever comes after that I think that's called the noibo effect where they come with the you know

the the the disease or you have this or you have that and then you're sitting there with it and it depends what comes next.

So if the doctor's like, "Oh, you're in stage this and that." And the way the energy that he brings in or she or they can bring in can do something, you know, and so I I the belief system. You're right. It's so I want to understand the soul thing you keep talking about because honestly a lot of my listeners are Christians, right?

And I try to make it them to understand that because we're such an Americanized, westernized way of thinking where we forget like eastern uh philosophy. I mean the the word of God by the Bible and in my belief system because I'm not pushing that on anybody else in my belief system that it's from the eastern side of the world and and we have turned it into something.

So we just take pieces of it to try to oppress and um control others with and that's where I want to understand what you two mean by soul.

Uh I love the question. It's so important too. Um well how can there's so many different ways we can talk about this. Uh one of the first things that comes to my mind is that um God is the one that created our soul in in our teachings.

Right? So um our parents gave birth to us right a sperm met an egg those are physical things physical body um the god god designed the physical body like humans didn't you know make the human body and it's pretty it's a pretty miraculous thing and it heals itself like literally you know you cut your arm the thing closes in and disappears after a while it's like a superhero suit like I mean it's miraculous and science doesn't really understand how it does that.

Like like science doesn't understand um how the sperm and the egg come together in the most deepest ways and like why a cell multiplies into two and like what's really guiding all that and why do all these cells multiply and multiply and then they stop at a certain point and they stop at the exact shape of our human body but they don't just keep going into like some kind of a blob.

Like it's really magical. So, but but our parents created our body, right? Like they decided to give birth to a child. But many parents, I think probably all parents across the board would agree that um no no two children are the same. They're in fact they can be completely polar opposites.

They can be so different. So we all have this uniqueness that is in inherent in us. And that's the part of us that I call our soul. This is the thing that we come into life with already. That's the gift we've received by God.

So inside of our soul, we have special things. We have passions. Like you might be passionate about something and I might be passionate about something and they're different.

Yeah.

And it has nothing to do with nec like there's a good chance it it doesn't have to do with anything that's been influenced into us or taught to us. Like we're not told you should be passionate about this. It's not really even a choice kind of like you just kind of discover, oh my god, I'm really interested in this particular thing that's coming from the soul.

So our soul has a whole bunch of really important attributes that we really need to understand in order to help have a relationship with God.

Yeah. Because if God's instilled certain passions in us, but we discard what we're passionate about and lose ourselves in the pursuit of money, let's say, then we're actually not we're missing a part of our relationship with God that is essential because God put those passions in us.

God designed our soul. So it's not that God's controlling us, but God gives us gifts. Actually, God is love. So

we really need to take our soul seriously.

I agree. Um, I want to just give a space here. Is there anything else that you wanted to add, Arya, or

No, that's great. I was ready to dive into the 15step process next, if that's still because I don't

Let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah, because this is what happens on this podcast is that sometimes I just I I give you guys questions and then I go off another

I'm a fan of going with the flow. Tangents. Tangents, man. Let's go on tangents

because listen, we have to be real, right? But I do I am very curious about this 15step real self-healing pro because that's a bold statement right some of us when we say well we have these steps but let's talk about that more so people have that understanding they're not assuming that you you two think you know it all

right so let's talk about it like what is it I mean I I heard I don't think I heard all 15 steps and I don't think I I know what they are but I would like to know how to explain it to someone that's listening right now someone that might be just got the diagnosis of cancer or someone they love with that like what do you mean?

Because sometimes what we look for is that instant silver bullet, right? Or that instant magic pill to hurry up and quickly get over it or get through it. And to me, I'm like 15 steps. I'm like, my goodness, that's a lot of steps.

So tell me about it.

Yeah. So it's called the real self process because of what we talked about earlier. We can't just positive think our way out of something that's actually bothering us deep down. So when we start working with clients, usually they already know.

Like when I ask what's going on in your life that's stressful if there has there been something before you've been diagnosed and they're like oh yeah and this long story unfolds and it's obvious that there's a lot of painful things that happened that we can talk about and start to resolve together.

Sometimes people are not really aware. It's rare though like one and maybe 50 is like no no no there hasn't been anything stressful. So these 15 steps are designed to open us up to really find what's been going on. So if we're already aware what's been going on, then it's really helpful to connect to all parts of it because we have a certain approach of trying to resolve it.

Let's say like our strategy to try to resolve conflict is XYZ. And our strategy includes bypassing anger maybe or only being angry and not getting to the deeper emotions that are there. So that's why there's 15 steps because we need to acknowledge the entirety of the experience before even we can start to transform it.

So if you think about people giving advice like you need to let it go, you need to forgive and ultimately that sounds great and it makes sense and that's good if we can actually do it but it's only helpful if we can do it for real and like Paul would maybe say from our soul.

Like if our whole being it feels true, forgiveness feels true, then it's amazing. But we got to get there and we can't skip steps to get there. We can't work on forgiveness. So we have forgiveness as a step in our 15step process, but I think it's step 11.

Wow.

Because there is so much to do and acknowledge before we get there. And that allows us to grow through the experience. We learn how to have a healthier relationship with our emotions and how to actually transform also in the moment. Even though this is a process you can do after the challenge, it will help you over time have a better relationship with your emotions and even, you know, apply that in the moment with people in real life situations.

Okay. What's step one?

What's going on?

Step Yeah, go. Sorry. Go ahead, Ara.

It's what's going on inside of me. And we have a step zero, which is what's my intention? Oh, that's so important that you bring that up, the intention because that listen, I know when my my my sister's my halfsister. We have the same dad, different moms, but when her mom passed in 2020, she told me, and it still like haunts me in a way because she said, um, well, Di died.

Um, I'm I'm probably going to get cancer now. like she knew and then within a year she got cancer.

Wow, that is strong intuition. Was it lung cancer? What what was the cancer? hers ended up being bone cancer stage four bone because she had breast cancer back you know she was on and off in remission and on off with breast cancer and then I guess it moves because that's the thing it moves around the body after you get you know into remission because that's what I what I hear is like remission is you you get out of it but it's still there

and and then it comes back or it can come back in a different area. So I I don't understand all the science of it. I tried really hard, but I think nobody really does. They they're we're all trying to figure this out. I I tell you all over I mean it is a multi-billion dollar industry, you know, and I'm not saying that these doctors are all about money because there's genuine doctors that I've come across that really really care about their patients.

Agree.

Absolutely. You know, but it's also what they're taught.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, back to I'm sorry, back to the 15 steps like Okay. So, your intention like that that that's that makes me think like yeah like how do you how do you process that with one of your clients?

It's a powerful question, right? And this brings us back to the soul. Um this 15step process really is about our soul because uh when we're trying to cope with stress or when we're surviving stress or just like trying to get through it or move on a lot of it is do done so by going into our head.

But when you ask what is your intention that question itself starts to connect you to your soul. It's a very powerful quot you can set an intention from your head,

right?

But um so what these steps do though, all of them is they're bringing us back to our authentic self, being bringing us back to our soul and they're guiding us step by step through a transformation through a learning or evolutionary process through the challenge.

So this the 15step process really it's a spiritual tool.

Okay? Because what mostly happens in society is that because we're not actually equipped with these types of tools, we're not taught how to deal with challenges when they arise, all these various challenges, then we just start coping and we try to survive them and you know, but but what we really need to do is we need to grow through them.

So we need to be changed by them. We need to evolve so that on the other end of the challenge we have become a wiser person. We become more conscious. We become more connected to our soul and more in alignment with truth and love.

And if we succeed at growing through it, that that's when symptoms will be prevented from developing. So your sister that said, you know, after that person died, now I'm going to get cancer. That's really unfortunate. Um, but you know, if she understood what really causes cancer and and she had the tools, she may very well have been able to now realize, I've got to do the 15step process, actually, because this is a really difficult experience that just happened to me.

There's a lot of powerful emotions. I just lost someone I loved. It's really challenging. It might have been challenging to her on all sorts of levels. Like, what is wrong with this world? You know, it can be an existential crisis. Like, this world isn't fair. like why why does God allow this?

Yeah. How do you deal with that? How do you deal with that with your with your system?

Uh well each of the steps we we teach extensively on each step. So Arya mentioned like one of the steps is about anger. And the question is am I angry? Let's connect to it. Let's be honest. It's okay. So it's about non-judgment safety.

Just let's just be honest. Are you angry about what? Uh so we teach all about anger and what really causes anger and all the different ways to heal the anger and transform the anger because later steps for example are like one of them already mentioned is forgiveness.

But if you try to forgive before you've acknowledged and healed your anger.

Yeah.

You're going to end up carrying the anger and that's not good for the human body to to harbor anger or carry it. And that is one of the primary causes of cancer, by the way, is repressed anger in its various forms. Yeah. There's a lot of different kinds of anger.

There's

irritation, there's frustration, there's

um uh rage.

Yeah. I mean, there's also like hunger, uh depression, because I I actually use a tool called the anger iceberg when I I worked in alternative high schools for two decades and or on and off for two decades. So I had a lot of angry teens and coming out of the Department of Juvenile Justice and that anger, you know, they either implode or explode and so I would have to teach the different um kinds of anger with the and I will put that in the show notes.

Everything we talk about, no matter what resource, I will try to find it to put in the show notes because I really want to help people understand how to think out of the box in order for them to connect to their true self.

That's basically what I try to do is to empower the human, you know, in their own format, in their own like way of health and love. And to me, like you were saying, God is love. And so when we start feeling these things that are not love, we either disassociate or we shame and guilt ourselves like we, you know, or we have a community maybe that's doing that for us because now I want to ask a little bit.

Oh, well I want to finish with the 15 steps. But we'll go back there because now that I'm thinking of faith backgrounds because a lot of my listeners come from faith backgrounds

or cultural communities where emotional expression is often suppressed,

right? How do you approach religious trauma and cultural expectation um expectations in your work?

Oh, such a good question. You know, Ari and I have been talking recently and we're realizing that the clients that we have that are very religious are the ones that heal the fastest

when they when they incorporate the the this root cause work.

Wow.

In the past, I found the opposite though. Um, I found it very challenging to work with someone that was very religious because um, we can get really set in stone with our beliefs, like really protective of our beliefs about God and like the devil and heaven and hell and like, you know, because there's such an investment into being a good person, you know.

Um, but over the years I've just learned so much and about the different teachings of the Bible and how to have a relationship with God. And it's just kind of like sort of naturally unfolded by listening to so many stories and hearing different like perceptions and and watching people make certain decisions and then sort of with my own using my 15step process actually and and with prayer work and meditation and really just being devoted to the to love and truth.

Now I can help people that are religious um get more into alignment with their soul and have a more a closer connection to God.

Wow. For

for example,

yeah,

this is this might sound wild to a lot of people, but honestly, it's life-changing. Um if you really get it,

um humanity has a lot of our understanding of God backwards. And here's one life or death uh scenario uh like factor related to that. Life or death honestly it's such a big deal. We are taught by society and a lot of religious people believe this too that when we have a symptom develop in our body if it's a small symptom or if it's a large one like cancer like um something more serious heart disease something's wrong with our body.

But actually there's nothing wrong with our body. God has designed the body to be able to heal. And it's actually God who has designed the body in such a way that it develops a symptom when something's happening to us that's not good for us.

God made it that way.

And the reason God made it that way is so that we have lots of reasons. Like number one, we realize, oh my god, something's happening to us. That's not good for us.

It's like a warning sign, you know?

Yeah.

Like if you if you get bit by a mosquito, it hurts and then it swells up and it's itchy and it can be a little painful maybe and you know, it's not a nice experience. That is a warning sign. Now, is there something wrong with the body?

No. No.

No. It it just heals, right? It just heals.

But if you have the right environment, I would think.

Yeah. If let's say you keep sleeping outside all night without a blanket covering your body and you wake up the next day you have a hundred mosquito bites

right and now you have now it's like whoa we might start thinking something's wrong with the body because there's now a hundred itchy painful spots

and then we get malaria or Zika or something West Nile

yeah so so there's actually a deeper cause that is happening all across society

that is causing our symptoms in our body and this extends to the emotional. So when things are not actually good for us, it takes a toll on our body and God has designed the body to heal against that.

So like um if I carry guilt inside myself for too long, that's not love.

That's not in alignment with God's love.

Right? God does not want us walking around with guilt trips. Um, so there's so as an example, like if I do something wrong, God has designed the human soul so that I will feel guilty right away. Like if I tell Arya, "Hey, so tomorrow I'll pick you up.

I know you really need me to be there at the right time. I'll definitely be there. I know it's a big deal. I'm going to pick you up." And then I just forget about it and I and I don't pick her up for like 2 hours later and I don't even check my phone or anything and she goes through a whole bunch of stress and she now has a lot of inconvenience.

It's a challenge. Like we can get over it. You know, we can grow together. We can learn. Why was I late? Why did I forget? Let's do this differently in the future. But my point just is if that happens, I'm going to feel guilty.

Well, that's because you have a conscious though of there's so many people that are walking around disassociated, so into their own ego that

disconnected from their soul.

Yes, they're disconnected from their soul and and yeah, I guess you're putting like words into it like I get it. I get understand. Do you know Dr. Bruce Lipton's Biology of Belief?

Yeah, I listened to his audio book like 15 years ago.

Yeah. Well, I I came across that when I was researching cancer with Chris War, you know, like everybody that I'm naming. I remember like,

okay, because that's the thing. We are growing and evolving and becoming more even though we have so much more information and we're able to connect like right now you are in Canada and and we're able to connect and we have so much connection but we are becoming such a disconnected society to a point we're just giving over our soul to all the other things.

So do you is that one of the steps too is to teach how to connect to to oneself again.

That's kind of like all the steps sort of serve that purpose, but there isn't they kind of all work together off of each other and and and help us restore our connection to our soul and not just a connection to our soul, but it helps us change our life so it's in alignment with truth and love.

Yeah. Because if our life is in alignment with truth and love, um, then we won't have symptoms in our body.

All right. Well, people argue about what truth is all the time.

Yeah. [snorts] So,

so how do you do it?

It's really controversial.

Yeah.

Well, here's here's the thing. We got to we got to be in order to do the root cause work in order to really heal in the deepest level, we have to be what's the word? um humble or

humble. We got to be willing to be

That's the word I'm looking for. Humility. Yes, I get it.

We have to practice humility. We got to realize

and I've went through so many challenges in my own life and then later realized I was wrong. I was completely wrong. I thought I knew. I insisted I knew.

And then I realized I wasn't. So, we've got to be humble. And but there is a truth. There really is a truth. Now that what we have to realize is it's not our truth. It's God's.

So for example, and and I think it's beautiful. What would we have? What would be better to have a whole bunch of different truths that we could argue about or just one trustworthy source of love that knows the truth for sure? And as long as we learn about that and live that way, we will be empowered and we can do we can be free and create and bring beauty to the world and be a steward of humanity.

We can experience joy, do all kinds of things, but as long as we're in alignment with truth, God's truth.

So, for example, God created water.

Humans didn't create that. So, the truth is the human body needs clean water designed by God. That's the truth,

right? It's not my truth.

Now, if I worked for Coca-Cola or if I worked for an alcohol company, I would have a different truth. And I would want you to be like, "No, no, no. You pop is good." And in fact, when I was in university, one of my close friends did their entire year, their their masters on uh research to prove that Gatorade was better than water.

Oh my word. And now we we know better.

Yeah. And and the results of the study were, let's just say what they told the public was different from what God would say.

Well, I mean, I don't want to ever speak for God. And I think that's the humility part of it, right? Is being that humble where you understand you're in reverence and in awe. And that's how I see it. That's how I'm able to function in this world is to be in awe and reverence and going okay there is higher power to me because of who I choose to follow is Jesus Christ.

That's the most amazing example on on how to be. I'll never be perfect and he he gets me off the hook of all the guilt and shame because of so many you know I've I had that perfectionism constantly.

And so this is why to focus on that to me he is the truth but for others like I don't know how you would put that in in in the the 15 steps or not or it is it like the 12 I keep going back to the aa 12 steps because they do like whatever your higher power is is that how you utilize your 15 steps whatever your higher power is or what

well it's kind of like the goal is to get in alignment with God. and trust with with the humbleness and the humility that if we have symptoms, we must not be in alignment with God.

Okay?

So, for example, if I don't think that water really is something I need to drink and and let's say it's just Paul's Paul's belief, and we don't know what God's truth is, then just try not drinking water for a while.

Okay?

So, are you saying

and see what happens, right? Then God's designed the body too

so that you'll start to feel dehydrated and then you start to get symptoms like uh one of the common symptoms of dehydration for example is uh headaches and another common one is constipation.

Yeah.

So then we can realize okay wait like my body is telling me now that something's harming it. And in this case this example is like not enough water. And then you'll notice that if you drink the water, the symptoms go away.

Right?

So that's what I mean by it's not my truth, it's God's. Like I didn't decide that. I've just kind of discovered that's true for me. But the beauty of it is is it's also true for everyone.

Okay?

And you can test it though. You can be like, "Wait, I don't think Paul knows what he's talking about. Paul's just being arrogant here. I'm going to try not drinking water. I'm just gonna drink, you know, and then you can see like do you get healthier or not,

right?

I would like to add something here because I I think um it's important to still talk about individual nuance because I think truth is such a controversial topic. And what Paul is not saying is that okay, everyone that has XYZ cancer needs to, let's say, leave their job to heal, but it's everyone that has XYZ cancer needs to look at, okay, what's going on in my life that truly on a soul level when I'm really honest with myself doesn't feel good, doesn't feel nourishing.

And really, if I'm honest with myself, I know it needs to change. So, how can that change? So now the truth is like there's so many different ways of which that could change to return to wholeness. Like I said earlier, you could leave the job.

You could actually talk to someone at the job. You could start your own business. You could just quit the job altogether and not work for 3 years. And the solution is very different. So but what I would say in this example that God's truth is is that we need to live in alignment with our soul.

We need to live in alignment with truth and love in a way that's good for us. And if we don't, there's some kind of consequence. And I like that you earlier um brought the topic of religious trauma in because it can easily feel like a punishment to people because they're the like God is so often depicted as being very punishing.

So then they can feel like, oh, I have this disease as a punishment, but it's not really a punishment. How we see it is that it's actually a guide. Like you said earlier, and I love this so much, and it's something we teach is a wakeup call.

It's actually, you could say it's God nudging you, bringing your attention to something. Sometimes it's a nudge, sometimes it's very abrupt and very intense, right? Um saying, "Okay, you got to really slow down and look at what's going on, what's not been good for you."

And here's where a problem often comes in is because then if you go to the medical system with that like if that is the reason the symptom is there cuz something in your life isn't good and then you go to the system and the system is like okay you got to do this schedule and you won't have time for your family you won't have time to reflect you won't have time to do the deeper inner work

then you can just try to destroy the cancer for years and years and years and have progress and have it come back and have progress and have it come back.

So while I'm not saying that it's never right to do treatments and I think there is also again here's individual nuance. Some one time we had a client that had a tumor blocking their colon and doing this root cause work can take time.

It's not like an overnight fix but they could do surgery and remove the tumor. So doing that that then gives them more time to work on the deeper cause can make a lot of sense.

Mhm.

So um yeah I know truth is such a controversial topic. I'm really trying to bring some more perspective.

No, that that makes it make more sense because what I'm hearing is the program or the protocol that you guys have put together after all your lived experience and and understanding and studying is it could be could be the missing link for the holistic healing.

That's what I'm hearing because I'm thinking like my whole my background my family like yeah if if those 15 step you know if I could have done that with my dad or my mom or my sister along with whatever protocol they chose you know because it sounds like a respect factor too like you're not forcing and pushing and saying no this is the one way and this is the highway right it's more of like no this

is something that we have been given and entrusted with and now I want to pass it on because I'm cuz it sounds like you both are very aligned with your creator and because of that it's been given to you and you're wanting to pass out the information in order to help humanity not to hurt him not to try make a fast buck not to be a you know snake oil salesman that's what I'm hearing and so

as you share like some of these um examples of clients that you have truly helped Yeah, that makes so much more sense now.

Like, yeah. Yeah. Can can someone utili do you think that this program could be utilized with people without cancer?

Absolutely. We have um we sometimes have clients that don't have cancer, but we also have many people that take our courses because we train practitioners and they often don't have cancer. They're already working with clients, but they are really loving the changes that it creates in their own life and how, you know, they come to more peace.

They live more authentically. So I think the healing and the prevention in that case is the same. The 15step process initially we actually created it more so for prevention because in our level two training we teach some tools that we would would go along with the 15step process. still very important to use.

But we also teach soul connection exercises because while you're connecting to your emotions about the specific challenge, that's really important to build strength and self-connection there. But we also got to connect to ourselves in a loving, playful way that has nothing to do with trying to resolve a challenge and really just be present with ourselves like start to enjoy ourselves, love ourselves.

And what does that really mean to love ourselves? So we teach a lot about that in our second level of training. And there's also other tools that we teach, but the 15step process is really fundamental tool that we always start with because it just really

opens it up. And we've had people take our level one training where we teach the 15step process um for practitioners and they reverse their cancer using that process, implementing it and also making the changes in their lives alongside with it.

Right?

So it is a very powerful tool. But I I also wanted to just say that there's more. And with regards to integrating it with other approaches like integrating it with conventional or alternative treatments, um that's really up to everyone individually what they want to do.

Like if someone is really wanting to do the conventional and wanting to do this work. I just want to um bring it back to what I said earlier though. It can sometimes be that when people focus so much on the conventional or alternative, they don't have time for this deeper work.

Even with alternative treatments, I've seen people do schedules like hyperaric oxygen, then juicing, then um cryo, then this, then that. And it's like so much that they don't have time to connect to themselves even. It's like almost they're busy working and the you know when you just work work work the emotions, you time to connect to yourself, it all starts building up.

Yeah. So I would say to someone that does treatments like that, okay, think about why are you doing it and is it really serving you? And if it if you feel like it is serving you, then great, keep doing it. But if you feel like you're doing it just out of fear and you're actually not feeling good doing it, then maybe question that.

You know, connect to yourself about it because we can never tell someone what's right or wrong with regards to that. It's all got to come from the person. But to just take a step back and reflect, I think, is important. Yeah, become that curious observer of yourself.

That's something that I do with my clients a lot. You got to like because what you're talking about is a reframing. It's uh to me the trans, you know, it's the renewing of the mind. You know, do not conform to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

That's Romans 12:2. And so that's something that you really have to recognize and realize in this kind of work. Um, so tell me like if somebody wanted to work with you, where can they find you?

Uh, well they could go to our website root causeinstitute.com.

Okay.

And we we have two paths. One path is if you're more interested in extensive knowledge like understanding all the cancers and the different themes that are behind them like

what? Wait wait wait wait wait stop stop. You have something that that has all the cancer. So like if I say colon cancer that's what my mother passed away from. You have a connection to the emotion.

Yeah. Uh not just the emotion but the theme and the common emotion. So like a common emotion involved with colon cancer is shame or low selfworth. And it's also related it's always related in some way to money in some kind of intricate way.

You're freaking me out, dude. Like I don't I'm like, "Oh yeah." Oh my word. Okay. Yeah.

How did you come up with that information though? Like was it studied by all the 15 years of you researching and putting together or are you getting um eastern philosophy as well like from um traditional Chinese medicine?

Um no. But uh just to give some respect to traditional Chinese medicine, after many years, I then did start to look around to see does anyone else realize what's going on and couldn't find it anywhere honestly, but traditional Chinese medicine is the closest thing that aligns with what I have discovered and what we teach.

And it aligns really well, at least on the surface. So I haven't got deep into TCM

but for example um TCM teaches that grief affects the lungs and what I have found is that one of the most common causes of lung cancer is related to loss or grief like sadness.

Wow.

And so that lines up with what I discovered. So I'm like whoa. Okay. Wow. And then uh traditional Chinese medicine also knows that there's a correlation between the kidneys and fear. Uh so that's another one that lines up with me. So uh but we've gone really deep like really far and we've correlated like what goes on in our childhood with these cancers later.

So this might sound like a lot but like so how do how did we figure this out? Well, what happened is um I just had a passion to help people because I had two people die of cancer in my family and nothing that I knew helped and they worked with a naturopath and they worked with the doctor and both people died.

So, it was really tragic, like really hard to go through that experience. Um but I realized like so long story short, I just realized everything we did was physical and we didn't really look at the stress going on in their lives. Uh so I came up with a theory and I started thinking well what if stress is somehow causing cancer.

So I ended up I'm really fast forwarding the story here but I ended up with people coming to my home and living with me for up to a month at a time with cancer and they were mostly stage 4 tried traditional tried alternative now they're told they're going to die.

So when they would come to my place, we would just sit oneon-one and I would I would I would ask them what's going on in your life like what kind of stress is and I would have people crying within 5 minutes because they no one had even asked them that question first of all.

So, no, no one had held space and and also they were out of all that stress because they're at my my place and like I had an organic farm and I had freerange animals.

And I really respect animals and I I think they're a gift from God and I had like a like a nice forest. So, they're walking the forest every day

and we're eating organic food and drinking clean water coming right from the ground from mother earth.

So, there's definitely some physical stuff in place there, but like we weren't trying to destroy the cancer. just talking about like what's going on stress-wise. And so that started to teach me.

So imagine what I what you could learn if instead of sitting with a person for 5 minutes like uh what a doctor typically does and looking at the scan, the physical scan of their body, oh you have a lump here and that's it.

And then just starting at some kind of a treatment. Imagine if you sat day after day and talked about everything.

Yeah.

So the amount of stuff that I've learned and I've been doing this for 17 years.

So like I I just have learn. So So what's happened honest to God is that I have had multiple clients with like the same cancer like brain cancer for example. I recently just had another client with brain cancer. what's going on in her life, all the different factors is exactly the same as the last client I had with brain cancer.

Exactly the same. Yeah.

And that happens with all the cancers. So when I have someone with colon cancer, I listen to their story. That's that's almost identical to the story of

that's how you come up with your okay, I get it.

Then I started realizing like, okay, there's always a common factor here. Uh grief is always a common one with lungs. Um a love challenge is always common with breast and um and like with breast cancer, the common factor is always caretaking all the time.

And it's and it's stress related to caretaking. And it's different on the left side versus the right side.

So do you have this all in a book?

It's not in a book. I I'm I'm working on that. But honestly, I continue to learn. Every time we hold our course, we update it and we have actually more information, more knowledge. So,

yeah, especially because there's like cancers that are not that common. For example, tongue cancer.

So, when Paul originally worked with people at his home and healing retreat, he was having like 10 people with breast cancer or something like a smaller amount of people. But since we've been going online since 2020, we've had hundreds and hundreds of clients.

So we've been able to start to map other cancers that are less frequent because we just had one person with tongue cancer. So like we can't really teach about that. Right.

Then once we have like five 10 people, we start to be able to really put together the themes behind it and see are there similarities and if they are just again and again and again some of the same patterns then we can now also start talking about that.

So, um, circling back to TCM, there's many, uh, cancers that we were not able to find information on what they even teach about like brain cancer. I couldn't really find much and some of the other ones. So, we've really been going out and, you know, doing this to see what's going on here, what's going on with that.

And still when we do sessions with people, we always start with an open mind, though. We're never like, oh, you have lung cancer, so what's the grief you have? Right.

Right. Yeah.

I'm starting with like, okay, what's been going on in your life? How do you feel? what brings you to the session and then the story unfolds and really giving space to listen to people is so important because once like it's not just another system that you learn and then diagnose people with the system.

I always encourage curiosity like you said earlier I think curiosity is such a beautiful way to approach life.

No, for real.

I mean it sounds like uh Bessel Vanderok's work in the body keeps the score when he was you know a psychiatrist working in a mental hospital and he started realizing like wait a minute I'm just listening to the person and and it is it is holding that that safe space without judgment and that's what I do as a therapist you know psychotherapist is that I bring people come to me and I I sit with them and I try to understand and help them to understand as well with whatever tools is given to me, right?

And so this is pretty cool that you're doing this psycho emotional work. And we didn't even hit childhood cancers like I see with little, you know, with little kids and stuff like that. We haven't even touched that because like I don't know if it's different or not.

They haven't had life experiences like some adults. So I don't even know if you've even had children come to you.

Yeah, we we've had one child. It's the least common work that we've done

because childhood cancer there's

um usually people aren't interested in doing the root cause work. They're usually more focused on like traditional stuff. Yeah. You know, uh but we have had one child heal

and their cancer their the child had eye cancer.

Wow.

And their their cancer went away. But we've only worked with four children in total.

Okay. And so we're not going to even touch that right now.

Yeah. The other we we understand the cause, but this is super sensitive area.

Yes, it is.

We have to we have to start understanding generational trauma and we have to like we really need to understand the energy field of the body and how like there's a lot of things going on today. By by the way, childhood cancer is one of the fastest growing cancers.

So it's really important to understand this. But um yeah, it it requires a lot of love, a lot of compassion, uh forgiveness. Um yeah, it's it's sensitive top. We teach about it in level two. It's our advanced training.

Okay. Well, good to know. Like for anyone that's listening and they might have a child or they get that, you know, and I'm always saying, please go get a second opinion.

Get get a second opinion. If a doctor says that you have cancer, go to another one and make sure. And if that one says go to the third. I know that sounds bad, but it's just because what I've seen and and experienced in my own life and and just was like, "Oh my word."

And and my own personal situation that happened to me where they sat me down and said I had tumor, you know, and I was just I sat back and I'm like uh and I went and was like, "Okay, let me deal with that."

Because like you said, that was an awakening. It was making me realize, oh, I'm not taking care of the beautiful body that the Lord has given me, you know, the the trillions of cells that only want to love you and they [snorts] don't want to destroy you, you know, and people have it like, no, you know, my body hates me.

And I'm like, no, it really doesn't. Why would you say that? And then I sit like you probably do asking that question. So, I probably could sit here and talk to both of you beautiful people for another hour or so, but I have to go because I have a client.

And so, um, is there anything you want to leave the audience with before we say goodbye?

Um, I just would like to finish the what Paul started saying, the two different ways that people can work with us. Um, so the one was to, you know, learn all about what we teach about the different cancers in different areas of the body and 15step process and so on.

But we also have a route for people to take that have cancer. So if someone has cancer, they can book a one-on-one with us and we'll, you know, sit down like you explained also and really take our time, really listen to the story and see how can we start resolving this.

And then we also have a course for people with cancer or also other diseases. It doesn't always have to be cancer, right? Like we talked about that too. Um where they learned the 15step process as well, but also these self-connection tools and many many other things.

And Paul and I have a bi-weekly call as well where everyone that's in that course can call in with questions and has a really beautiful group environment because so often um people start when they start doing this beautiful work like to really heal from within there isn't very many people around them supporting them or doing that too.

It's often expected that you would do this treatment or this friend has a special cure and it can all start to you know kind of feel confusing. So this creates a beautiful anchor that every other week we get together and with people that really focus on the same thing healing from within.

So that's the options that are available on our website if someone's interested.

All right. Wonderful. Um be one more thing. Is there any do you have a resource page or anything? Because you know there's people that have cancer that can't afford to come see me as a therapist or you guys or travel to wherever you you know that they have to travel with.

Do you have any?

It's a free webinar page. So there's lots of uh other podcasts that we've recorded or webinars that we've held and people can definitely start there.

Oh, wonderful.

Paul, you want to say some?

There's we all there's also my book. It's called The Root Cause of Cancer.

Um and it it has some good guidance in there.

Okay.

Um but if you do read my book, I want to say I wrote that in 201 uh 10. And so since then I've changed a couple things, but the the heart of all the teachings of the book are the same. But I used to think that cancer was some kind of a survival mechanism the body was utilizing.

And I've got a lot of logic and science behind that.

But it also supports that stress is causing like blood sugar surges in our body and physiological damage in our body. So it's it's very valuable. But I would just want anyone to know that if you read my book and I'm going to explain this in my second book that now I think cancer is a fungus.

So we yeah we didn't even hit that one but yeah we didn't even talk about this but

but essentially

so just really quickly like 20 seconds

stress starts to cause damage in a specific location of our body on a physical level like stress is an energetic invisible level right but it's real and it affects our body so where it's compromising our body is where our body begins to shut down it becomes compromised and cells begin to died just there.

So then fungus grows there and that's what cancer probably is. And there's a lot of reasons why I'm explaining this like why I think that. Um and like for example, science shows that tumors are necrotic in the center. It's just dead cells. So anyways, we've got to heal at an energetic level.

And I don't mean like some fantasy land. I mean like emotions are real energies. Like anger, sadness, guilt, shame, fear. These are energies that are real. They like if you really pay attention like they are affecting us and what it means is we're not experiencing the feelings of faith, trust, peace, freedom, inspiration.

You know, it's easier said than done to switch that around. So, we've got to like So, 15step process is like a spiritual tool. Uh we help people grow in relationships. We've got to grow together spiritually in relation. We have to evolve and

all in the devotion of love and truth.

Love it. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. And listener, remember, please trust in the Lord, guard your heart, and renew your mind. Bye. And now for the disclaimer to make sure you understand that you are responsible for you.

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