Unlocking Emotional Well-being: Dr. Jay on Neuro Emotional Technique and the Polyvagal Theory

hello there God's Masterpiece welcome to another episode of the holistic counselor podcast today we have a noteworthy guest who will leave you empowered and enlightened I introduce you to Dr J maranthal did I say that right yes yeah okay a fellow Deerfield Beach High School I good Buck yes Buck Pride although we never graced the Halls together since I am quite a few years as senior uh we share that common Bond along with how we view

trauma healing Dr J as I call him hails from South Florida and boasts an impressive AC academic back background with a bachelor's in science and engineering from University of Michigan he continued his journey at the National University of Health Sciences in Illinois and has been a dedicated practitioner in Deerfield Beach Florida since 2008 in 2017 he earned his Diplomat in applied Kinesiology did I say that right applied Kinesiology thank you and has been an influential board

member for both you're going to have to tell me what icak USA means and icak international since 2018 what is that the International College of applyed Kinesiology oh so okay apply yeah okay wonderful Dr maranthal has written Advanced education courses and lectured nationally and internationally on Chiropractic and functional medicine since 2013 he has also made significant contributions to drug alcohol and mental health treatment centers utilizing a poly vagal informed Chiropractic technique he is here today to

delve into the fascinating world of how Chiropractic is being used in trauma therapy I was sitting in his office one day seeing Dr Troy when I noticed the ne chart on the wall my curiosity peaked I visited Dr J's website explored his information on poly vagel Theory and watched his YouTube Workshop realizing the depth of his work and finding many of his reference books on my own shelf I knew I had to invite him on the

show so without further Ado thank you Dr J for joining us and sharing your wisdom on the holistic counselor podcast so let's dive in to the Intriguing intersection of chiropractic care and trauma therapy and I'm going to start with can you explain what NE is and how does it help addressing trauma so NE is an interesting uh technique that was developed by a chiropractor okay it's called neuro emotional technique and so the idea is we use

Muscle testing as well as um certain steps that you go through to uh help to figure out what's going on with somebody kind of deep down inside them and so um it Taps into a bunch of different um Tech protocols that are kind of U different ways of treating people um we use the acupuncture system to kind of figure out different emotions that could be associated with things and find old memories that could be kind of

tying us down and dragging us dragging us down and and um subconsciously influencing our decisions yeah and so when I saw the chart and I'm like ne ne and and and I'm like okay I saw the some meridians MH which would be the traditional Chinese medicine or acupunct right and then also would it go along with the traditional TCM clock M right so when we think of traditional Chinese medicine we think of acupuncture needles and sometimes

herbs and things like that but within each Meridian within each pathway of energy that flows through the body there's different things there's different times of day different colors different taste different emotion different direction and the general idea is that when you have problems in these areas you have either too much energy or not enough energy in that area and we can kind of use those ideas of things that are going on to help to basically balance

our energies and get it so that we can release the energy that the body has which is meant to heal itself right right cuz I believe in that too that God the creator of or whatever you want to call the creator of this universe is you know gave us the things we need to self-heal in a way like with their plants I mean plant medicine and stuff like that with each other too when we understand the

whole being and not just like here you go you're just one part understanding that we're whole beings right so with any I'm still on that because we'll get to poly veel it's just I'm so I was so amazed by that I'm sitting there laying there just reading this chart I'm going that makes sense oh that makes sense oh that's why I'm having this issue right now like you know um to me it would be sematic therapy

right that's moving the energy it is yeah there's definitely a sematic component to NE and the cool thing about NE is it you know it pulls from older techniques that have been around but you know with NE it was um it was it was peer- reviewed and studied and it's shown to actually make changes in the brain they they had they um there was a Dr Monty out of uh a school in uh Philadelphia where they

are actually doing functional MRIs and they showed changes in the brain after doing n sessions and so there they've got a whole documentary called stressed that you can watch that kind of goes into that more really maybe I could find the link or is it on Netflix or where would I I think you can just YouTube okay wow I would love that but n is great I mean definitely is um it it you know makes changes

I mean I've heard people say it's like doing 5 years of therapy in in one session and so and because you know as we go through life we have these things that happen to us and and not only that but we have these things that are kind of somewhere deep down inside of us and then what ends up happening is they drive us subconsciously and and so it if we can find these things and we can

maybe start to understand why we act the way we act and then make changes so that we don't um act that way and and you know and be stuck to come back around to the poly veal Theory stuff is we all Chase safety right oh I like that okay let's just go in that's it we're going to go in okay so let me before we go into that it's like as a psychotherapist there's so many theories

out there right there are because I am I didn't even learn half the things I've learned in the last 20 years since I graduated from Nova right but poly vagel like like I read de Dan Dana Dana that whatever the the Bala Theory I skim through it I should not say deeply read and highlighted like I usually do but I skimmed and I think after this conversation I'm going to go back into it and then watching

your video and then I watch different videos too I was really impressed man when you and that's when I knew when you said when you said on the workshop video that marijuana is the gateway drug and I'm like oh my gosh I've heard that since I was in your fly when they gave us the you know and it's like marijuana is not the gateway drug it's trauma yeah and then I heard that from Dr Gabor mate

and everything I've been studying for years now and I was like oh my gosh this and then you just kept going and I I'm like but you you you were able to teach it in a way where the Layman person because sometimes some people you know like people will teach according to their peers yeah but when you were teaching it it was like no somebody that doesn't know this stuff so let's go into it and then

um just dive into the poly vagel Theory and what you know so the most interesting thing to me about the poly vagel theory is that this was not written for trauma so the way this was written was a guy um you know Steven pores he's he's a researcher he's a physiologist and he was in the 1980s studying um neonates babies in the neonatal Intensive Care Unit in the NICU okay and he was trying to figure out

how can we tell which babies are at risk of dying and which ones are safer and so what found was that he had a uh he was able to look at heart rate variability well um respiratory sinus arhythmia which we we typically call heart rate variability right now um and he was able to say the babies that have higher heart rate variability higher respiratory sinus arhythmia which means changes in your heart rate as you breathe in

and as you breathe out right have um a greater risk of living so they're safer they're you know they they're they're healthier and so and it is the vagus nerve that activates the the that that reflex that that respiratory sinus arhythmia so his determination was activation of the vus nerve causes increased respiratory sinus arhythmia and in healthier people they have more activation of the vus nerve and they have higher likelihood of surviving um the neonatal Intensive

Care Unit so then he gets sent a letter that says from a neonatologist that said to him isn't that interesting everything I've ever been taught says that um you know activation of the Vegas nerve is what causes death in babies what I guess too much of a good thing is a bad thing yeah that's true so but as a physiologist he's like that doesn't make any sense but so so he spent the next 30 years of

his career understanding that there are two distinct and separate functions of the Vegas nerve one of them is going to be our vental Vegas which is going to you know we Now call the social engagement system okay and then we have another part of it which is going to be our dorsal vagal break and so everybody knows that one is vas veal Syncopy where you you're giving blood and you pass out okay some people or yeah

or you see like wedding videos people standing there and they that's that's an activation of the dors of Vegas or so before we keep going I want to know where is this in your body because to me like just you know just pick everybody you know anybody listening is a human being I hope not a robot and and they have a body so where would you find this nerve okay so the Vegas nerve is called the

Vegas nerve because the word Vegas is Latin for wandering so it is actually a cranial nerve which means it comes right off the brain stem okay and it wanders all the way down through our throat through our chest all the way down into our abdomen we on video so that's why I'm doing this okay so all good so I mean you know this is a Wandering nerve it runs all over the entire body up in in

in below the diaphragm into the abdomen so okay right so it's in your gut and that's why I I understand it is like you know your gut is your second brain right right and so to me it's like we're all it's all connected uhhuh okay and that's how it's connected is through the Vegas nerve oh my word okay that's fascinating to me and I kind of know this but it's just like okay because you're not a

mental health counselor right but you understand mental health yeah and that to me and you understanding poly vagel Theory because honestly some people get stuck in the gut or in the like you said there's something being stuck so with this vagus nerve like you said it's from the brain stem right it sounds like it's like the main wire of the motherboard like we are computers but yeah right and it goes down to the in the front

it's through it's it goes into our heart it innervates our heart innervates our lungs and it goes through the diaphragm and it inates our intestines okay all right so and then you me mentioned another nerve dorsal okay so let's go back to the polyal theory yeah um well maybe I should even go back further and talk about how like why as a chiropractor I'm even that be beautiful do it do it man so number one um

when I when I started studying applied Kinesiology one of our tenants one of the things we talk about is chemical structural and emotional and even when you go back to the original the first chiropractor guy Nam DD Palmer he would talk about there's toxins thoughts and Trauma that are what CA problems the body and if we can remove the the 3s the toxin traumas if we can balance up the chemical structural emotional then and sometimes we

have to approach them all so I started learning kind of I'm I'm an engineering kind of mind and so for me physics and and structure was like my number one go-to and chemistry was like well I was interested in in herbs and things like that but I never wanted to do anything on the emotional side of things it just was not in my I remember thinking that's that's usually Engineers are logical they're more in the L

instead of the E exactly and so um then I had a patient of mine who was a runner okay and she was sideline she' been to all these different doctors nobody can get her back running again and and I got her running again and and it was you know talking about adrenal stuff and uh and and overtraining and and obviously doing some some you know physical work you know whether it was muscle work or adjustments and

things like that and when I when she she would come in well when anybody comes in one of the things I really try to do is is to teach people right you know it's educate the word doctor comes from the word doer which mean or which means to teach right the word doctor is a teacher right so the Latin word so but so when then she opened up a treatment center and so I'm in this treat

she brings me into this treatment center and I'm doing acupuncture on other people but at the same time I'm learning about what this means you know the the addiction kind of like blanket and then you know and so I've been working in treatment now for 13 years so or excuse me 11 years and um and so I I you know when you're there and you you every day you you just start to you you figure out

what people need yes and that's where the whole kind of trauma thing started coming in was I was looking at stuff um and I was seeing the need for somatic treatments I mean and you know that's one of the biggest things you know even Steven porges um I think I talk about this in my and I'm going to I don't think I'm going to get the quote but he said the future of trauma therapy is in

Physical Medicine like you know so yeah physical energy I would think like and I'm not talking about New Age woowoo stuff because some of my listeners like they hear the word energy and then it's you know it's like what like come on but we are energetic beings yeah but I mean more than that like um I think of this story that I heard when I was in high school from a um a Navajo Indian who was

in he was captured in World War II and he was behind and he ended up um somehow being rescued right at on Dust St and he gets taken back to the VA and and I don't know the details on him but basically he was just getting worse and worse and worse and worse and finally his tribe says look he's going to die if he's going to die he's going to die with us right so they take

him and they did their whatever ceremony they did and I think it culminated with him like throwing him in a river in like February in like South Dakota or something and cold plunge yeah and that's what snapped him out of it but like that's what broke that dorsal vagel kind of thing and so wow and and that sounds like um what's his name Iceman whof story his story as well like his trauma he had Trauma from

his wife uh Dying by Suicide and then he just jumped in the water and something happened and at that point he's like I have to chase kind of Chase that so back to the poly the cool part is it doesn't really explain necessarily how to treat stuff it just understands what these things that we've that you know we've learned to treat that as like just through our training it understand it helps us to understand why these

things happen Okay so like I said you know the polyal theory stuff wasn't written for trauma therapy but it was read by a trauma therapist and said oh my gosh finally we have something to explain the experience of trauma survivors okay and so now we can understand why we why jumping in a the ice water helps us to get over these things or right so what do you do as a chiropractor with the with the Vegas

nerve like you know what I mean like it's like I'm I'm a cognitive behavioral therapist like I try to get them to somatically or go see a chiropractor because we are a team like you can't just be with one thing and then hope you know and hope especially if you understand that the whole being you got you should think about your nutrition you should think about aligning your back because a one nerve that's off can cause

pain and that pain can cause depression you see it's a cycle yeah so what do you do as a chiropractor so it's interesting how this stuff all Works um you know I you know back to the apply Kinesiology thing right so um there's a guy I don't even know the year I think it was in the 70s there's a guy named Roger Callahan who had something called the five minute phobia cure and um ultimately I think

he was on I don't know it's on Johnny Carson or I me he was you know super famous guy wrote a book on it but basically what they would do is tap acupuncture points on the face and and that's where and um and EFT Freedom technique that's where that stuff all came from so he you know that stuff came from this guy Roger Callahan who had learned from apply genology how to do these tapping techniques and

things like that and it's incredible how well it works I mean like I've seen students do it or School calm them down or yeah just like breath work yeah breath because doesn't breath work help with the Vegas I would think like you were say like you know you're taking that big deep breath in you're stimulating I mean I've seen people do uh Vegas nerve on YouTube like exercises or something like that what do you think of

that I well okay number one I want to talk more about that I want to yeah um because there's a huge when I I hear people talk about the Vegas nerve all the time and I'm like okay you're kind of right but you're you're also kind of wrong because think back to Stephen pores' thing right so he had this babies activation of the Vegas nerve creates health and safety but at the same time we also know

that that's what kills babies I mean that you know when the baby's heart rate you know plummets and then they you know and they have the meconium and all these different things like that's what causes the Vegas nerve is what causes that reaction so um we have to understand that there are two distinct portions of this Vegas nerve that we figured out well actually we Dr porges has figured out and it kind of Clues Us in

and and these things are very far reaching I mean you know number one understanding my video kind of goes into okay the the different connections of each part but like you know the fact that you have good facial expression and you can um you can give off signs of safety and you can understand signs of safety or or understand that you're in a dangerous situation is based on part of that Vegas the ventral Vegas that's our

social communication but it also creates that healthy part that's what creates our our our heart rate variability and it creates like like the healing portion of the Vegas when people are talking about oh the healing power of the Vegas what they're really talking about is the healing power of the vental Vegas okay but we also have that V that dorsal Vegas and that dorsal Vegas is kind of is going to be um that's like our that's

the part of us that shuts us down so um when I talk about the Vegas one of the things you know we've always for well I mean I think for the last 2,000 years is we've thought of the vegus like a teeter totter okay you either have high fight or flight sympathetic nervous system is going to be our adrenals and and on fire constantly inflammation everything to protect you yeah yeah that's driven by our adrenal glands

and adrenal hormones and also our sympathetic ganglia um but Al and then we have our other side of that which is going to be the the rest and digest and heal that's our parasympathetic right that's not how it works though oh wow the way it really works is is a lot more similar to we have our our vental Vegas which is going to be kind of like our govern it's like that's what allows our ride to

be to be good I mean that's what allows us to kind of like navigate through life to pick up safety cues to create proper facial um um Expressions to let people know and not only that but there's other things like our hearing right it's to tune down our external noises um so that we can actually like pay attention to what's going on in Focus because the thing is you know there's muscles in your ears that are

inated through that that ventral veal complex and what they do is they tune down background low pitch noises which are probably most likely predator noises what we've been kind of tuned to to make it so we can survive um so that we can focus on human vocalizations and you look at a lot of traumatize people they just you can talk to them and they can hear you but they're not they're disassociated or hypervigilant or you know

don't trust like yeah yeah so but the the reason why well specifically with hearing or or you know there's just so much noise coming into the brain you can't just differentiate between background noise and human vocalizations so we got our our smoothness of our ride that's our one and then we got our gas right and that's our ability to kind of like run from the saber to the tiger or whatever it is run from a bear

you know or like you know or or act quick enough so that you can dodge a car that's you know it's it's merging right into your Lane right to keep you safe your brain's always on now we've got another one we've got our dorsal Vegas and our dorsal Vegas is going to be our break like that's our um this there's this story I always kind of tell my um my goalie of my hockey team was a

Navy SEAL and he was underwater and these guys train to hold their breath for ridiculous amounts of time what is it four minutes five minutes it's insane and um and so he was teamed up with this one guy and he was stuck underwater and he was like basically forced with either he comes up and gets disqualified or he drowns and so you know what happened he pooped himself oh wow so you know we talk about fighter

like rest and digest right so like it's like so actually he was he had a true dorsal vagal reaction his heart rate dropped yeah and he you know and so totally digested yeah well but I mean that's but that's that's what that Vegas does and that same thing with babies when we look at the monei stool and their heart rate drop because they get that dorsal veag wow you and so that so here's the thing I

think of that like our emergency break and a lot of people are going through life with their emergency break on and their gas is just hypervigilant right so their their gas is to the floor right and they're they're going 20 M hour but their RPMs are 9,000 and so they're just like and they they overreact to things they they misunderstand things I see that a lot I mean that's why they come to me a many of

my clients right it's because um and the more trauma starting at a young age the more unless they have done the work and they really you know have really quality therapy MH um you they get diagnosed with a whole bunch of different things you got borderline you got uh did this associative identity disorder you have you know bipolar and I'm not saying cuz you know I don't want to throw that label are there to give us

boundaries but I there has to be a better way than to just label and disable someone and medicate them for the rest of their lives uhhuh yeah of course well well I mean you know yes I mean number one yes um but number two like you know and it's funny because everything you've mentioned have are talked about in a lot of Stephen pores' book theor and I I'm harping on that but you know I mean I

I almost want to go back to like what do what do you do what do I do as a chiropractor so there's an interesting kind of shall we say Theory um you know one of the biggest books that we all hear about with trauma is the body keeps the score right so bestl Vander CS work is great great changed my whole practice back in the day I've read it many many times I've read it at least

five times maybe more um but here's the thing you know as a as a it's it really does seem that the body stores trauma right so let's let's so any what we do is we use use Muscle testing to find the areas in the body we we ask questions and we use Muscle testing along with it to find where that trauma is stored in the body I had a woman today who had a car accident at

18 and she's in her I think 40s now and we were working on this horrible rooll of her accident this pain the first thing she comes in is telling me about her hip pain that she thinks was like kind of like like flank pain that's caused from her accident when the car rolled over and where the seat belt hit her wow and um you know I mean this this still real to her you know but I

mean there's there's she may have some fasal changes and structural changes that happen from the accident but you know the pain that she's experiencing today was you know an emotional component to that and you know we there's there's things that we go through to kind of clear that stuff by the time she left she was feeling a lot better but um but here's the interesting thought right so with NE we we ask questions and people have

to talk about them and find them but it seems like we can do work on the body and find the area where the body is this trauma okay and kind of remove it and then the things that were triggering us to have that reaction where we kind of like light back up and go back we they don't happen quite as much right that's and it's also if you think about it what's happening it's like you're rewiring

the brain right it is you're rewiring the whole brain and body and letting go wherever that stuff the stuff was stored so with NE or Chiropractic Care like say a a new client comes in right what's the first thing you do do you ask questions of like emotional or you or or or even when you were working at the rehabs right the substance abuse facilities how did you work there so yeah I just I I would

I would go in I would I would adjust everybody there but you know part of you know there's a really interesting part that in that lecture I talk about just in the polyal theory where they talk about face face muscles right and so that vental vehicle complex it it it inates the muscles of our upper face right and so you can look at somebody as an astute clinician and you can say this person's like dissociated or

I can tell this person's upset or you know the thing is these people can't look at people and they can't tell things I mean I had a guy one time that you know I was doing acupuncture I was going moving around the room kind of systematically and for whatever reason I missed him and I went to the next person he was ready to fight me cuz he thought I skipped him intentionally he took it personal yeah

but but like that's his response like that's his survival respons he's learned that and he thinks that's appropriate and afterward but but you know that's not his vual vagal complex that's his sympathetic that's his amigdala that's his that's his lyic response and so something triggered him either he was living in this all the time where he's living in his in his lyic system and not able to use his prefrontal cortex where he's able to have social

niceties and and understand things like patience and courtesy and things like that yeah um but you know you know this is the example of like what we are what we're doing is so as I'm going in I'm as I'm as I'm working with people I'm kind of figuring out where they're at I mean I'm not if somebody walks in with a shoulder problem and they only want to work on their shoulder problem we're working on their

shoulder problem now somebody comes to me and has just been in a car accident and is shaking right because they you know they were in a rollover car accident and they were they didn't and they have PTSD now because of that I mean that would be the first thing I'm going to work with them is make it sure so they can get into the office and drive into you know Drive in the car and so we're

going to be doing some trauma work with them and I've had that exact experience you know numerous times so okay so um let's let's let's see so what are some practical applications from Nat or poly vagal theory that a listener can use in their daily lives to enhance trauma safety and emotional well-being is there anything that and I know it's you know I put a thing out like okay don't take this advice totally because of some

you know because we have to protect ourselves because we're both licensed practitioners not medical advice things that I do these you know what kind of person well where where would they start like you know say they can't afford to go to a chiropractor which to me or a therapist like either one of us but to me it's like you you can't afford not to because what you're going to do is you're going to get symptoms and

then you're going to keep trying to figure this out and then it just becomes this vicious cycle and there you are maybe hospitalized or being at a rehab in and out of rehab constantly cuz that's why I keep going back to when you said trauma is the beginning the is the gateway drug you know I think there's actually a Russell Brand quote he say marijuana is not a gateway drug cocaine is not a it's trauma is

the gway you know so um the biggest thing is and I really I you know I there's so much free information out there and you know I I've tried to read over I think I've read over 60 books a year for the last decade wow man you were in the IB Program weren't you I wasn't I was in gener general population but the thing is become a student of this stuff read about that there's so many

people that are doing so many different things whether it's listening to this podcast or whe it's listening to another podcast or you know watching my YouTube watching other YouTubers um I love Bernay Brown's work I love um Dom Miguel ruiz's stuff I love Walker you mentioned Walker I love Pete Walker too and and so one of the things that Pete Walker I love was he has a book called complex PTSD from surviving to thriving yes he

really does a really good job of of explaining the four what he calls the four F survival types fight flight freeze and fawn and there's and there's a there's a normal response I mean if somebody's standing too close to you and you're on the London Tube you need to make sure you you you get your guard up because this person might be trying to rob you now if somebody is walking past you in public and they're

just you know talking to somebody and and you're Conant that you know it's it's a tough way to live I mean okay and this is what just came into my mind just think about our experiences at and and I'm not putting deerfi Beach High School down because honestly like for me I come from a background I don't you don't know my story but I come from trauma dear full high was actually a safe haven for me

because of where I come from right and so I loved being at school I loved it I I I felt safe there all right and and but I remember the fights I remember I just thought that's how life was because you don't know any better when you're a Crystal Lake Middle and and deerful high and stuff like that I was a Crystal Lake you go to Crystal Lake wow go cougars there you go that's crazy but

you see where I'm getting at but what now as a therapist I look back and I see all the hypervigilance I see why people started smoking pot at because I started and I'm free with my my story but I started smoking pot in seventh grade at Crystal Lake Middle and I was a pothead all the way until um you know whatever but not I don't do it anymore but do you see what I mean I had

to learn and that's the thing the psychoeducational part to to learn and and if you're listening right now to become so self-aware and become a self- Advocate and get people that understand the Mind Body Spirit connection you know a functional integrative doctor a chiropractor an acupuncturist a you know a trauma specialist that understands the whole being because you're not just Parts you're a whole being and it's okay to gather your team you know and that's the

beauty is like I I'll I'll send people to you like now that I know this and you know this then I'll be like oh no you need to go to see Dr J or does tro Dr Troy know this stuff too or you tring him training him okay good good but you see what I'm saying but you we now looking back right you see the hypervigilance in a lot of humans I never really took it personally

because I was always a pure counselor but it's like it's not that they have a some people have a chip on their shoulder it's because they're living in that hypervigilant vagel vagus nerve like fear and they have to be and I grew up around that like I know like growing up in New York and stuff people be like you got to fight fight or you die yeah right and you know that doesn't end it keeps you

know that one of my so I've got all these different quotes that I love like you know one of the things about traumas is when we go through trauma there's a I think this is a Bessel Vander quote he says when we go through trauma we're busy fighting invisible enemies inside our head wow and um you know another one of my stories is um so when I went to chiropractic school I would always bite my nails

and I and I uh and one of my teachers did hypnotherapy and I was like can I try hypnotherapy I you know I really want to stop but I'd stop and then I'd start again so I did one session of hypnotherapy and I stopped biting my nails and so because of that I was like I I got to I got to learn what this is all about so I went and got my certification as a hypnotherapist

technically I'm I'm certified I didn't really use it per se but like I do use it in like the thought process and things like that however the biggest thing was what I said to everybody for that that from that point on was for the next 20 years was it was like I needed the quiet time to ask myself why am I not allowing myself to do what I want to do and then give myself permission and

what I found was there was a piece of me that actually thought I was helping myself making myself look better by biting my nails wow and so I had to find that piece and um and then like have a conversation with that piece and you know you know and so that's sounding a little ifs internal family system then I yeah exactly so then I I was introduced to the book internal family systems therapy and it was

funny cuz at that time I found myself being really hard on myself yeah and I can imagine you an IB kid right so so what what I but what I figured out after I read that book was after I read internal family systems therapy and and no bad parts and and I was like yes Richard Schwarz love that stuff I mean I love that concept because what I found was I I can be very eloquent I

can express myself I can get my words across and make other other people see things the way that I see but when I get bullied I tend to like uh uh uh and see and when I get bullied I will fight you and I'm like a little chihuaha me me like a little Chihuahua and I'll take on a big old guy my poor husband's sitting there like Diana no you're going to get me killed and that

that's the thing we you know where there's fight types there's flight types there's preets and there's FP and like you know I think the world to some extent is set up to make fight types A little bit more successful because most people are freeze types or Fawn types yeah or flight types you know I mean so I don't like that I'm a fight because this is why I'm always at your office or this is why you

you have to so and that's one of the things I always talk to people about is like it's not about um it's not about like changing the way you you're not going to change that you're a fight type in certain situations but what you can change is whether or not you stay in your prefrontal cortex in and maintain your 21st century human being characteristics or you go back into your animalistic lyic system brain and so you

need you know that's Mony brain yeah exactly I mean that yeah that's our like fight flight you know the the four you know so um that that's that's just our reflexive like you know that that reflexive brain is that reflexive brain is just focused on Survival right you know so we need you know when you go into the fight type that's not you thinking like you're this this is the brand you know so I don't like

that about me CU I'm a therapist like if I was something else maybe but because I'm a therapist and all of a sudden I could get to a point where I could take a shotgun and put it at someone's head so I mean and that's the thing that we've learned with polyal theory is like you know when you are your when you are you are your therapist self you are thinking with your prefrontal cortex you have

access to your memories you know your temporal lobe and your pre you know you can you can be nice and you can you can you can strategize right but once you get shaken to the point where you're not in that anymore yeah you're just you're just straight reflexive like I mean you're like you know and I want to explain that story because people are going to hear that and be like what did she just say it

was I was in the woods I was left alone in the cabin some guy who was drunk came to the cabin my husband's shotgun was there I didn't he was looking for my it turned out the guy knew my husband everything I had no idea I was by myself my instinct instead of running and going in I and I never I don't like guns I don't shoot him I'm not that person I automatically went to the

shotgun opened up the door and put it to his head and then say can I help you and and he freaked yeah I I think I sobered him up real quickly now I have this little reputation up in in the boonies where we go like Jim Rice's wife but but I didn't like that like after I was done it I cried yeah I cried a lot because I'm like I don't ever want to be that person

that's why I don't I don't have a gun well in order to have that you also your your adrenals like you know they kicked on so you you just you know you put the pedal to the ground you know so of course you know you know not good so back to like my own you know when I what I found my me bullying myself all the time was me kind of planning all right if I bully

myself then the next time the bully comes for me I'm going to have thought of what they're going to say and I'll rehearsed it and then I'll have a chance to kind of like to to respond quickly right however I don't think that ever worked no not I mean maybe once or twice but I don't think it ever really worked um but what I needed to do what I found once I read that book no bad

parts is like oh this piece of me this bully is an exile and so if you're mean to the piece of you that's being mean to you you're still being mean to you right so I had to rather than being mean to that piece find that piece love that piece and say thank you subconscious for putting this into my Consciousness but this is okay we're we don't have to do this right now we're not going to

do this it's okay if we don't do this and so if a bully comes from me let him it's going to be fine you know I mean see and and right away like you're telling me this and I'm sitting there like all right I'm going to beat whoever up don't be bullying Dr J yeah so when that when that when that that's that's that's your Exile right and so that that's your Exile like of uh uh

Richard schwarz's work so that's that's your that's your Exile and so what you you know and that's okay that it's there cuz it's there to protect you you've made it through life this far but I'm always protecting the underdog too right so but you and if you want to get to where you if you want to get Beyond where you are now you need to find these things that that are dragging you down aged and then

and and be thankful that they were there for that time because they kept you alive but also assure yourself like you know and speak to yourself in words that you need to hear right uh and and I love how myopractor is now being my therapist I love it I love it I love it all right so but this is the stuff that I you know when I'm working in the treatment center this is a lot of

the stuff that I've learned through this stuff and and you know most of the time people walk in with a you know they in jail and that cop pulled their arm back behind because they were on drugs and they've got a shoulder injury at the same time there's an emotional component that got them there in the first place and there yeah because no I really believe that no child sits there and says when I grow up

I want to be homeless on Dixie Highway MH you see where I'm getting okay I'm going to get emotional now because I think about that when I have a client they come in and it's it's like no it's like what led you to this place that's you know that's how um Bessel Vanda with I thought you know when I read his stuff I'm like oh he gets it and so I started diving in Dr God like

I said God I'll put this all in the show notes even ifs book and all that stuff because to me if you're listening like learn learn that there are other theories and other ways of of healing you know and to me so one more question before we go because it's already 40 minutes in and yeah see I told you this this go we could go on for hours but I don't have uh that time because we

probably have other people coming but um so what kind of advice would you give to a mental health counselor intern or someone that's going to become a chiropractor like my nephew remember I told you my nephew is about to go to light University I think life uh life or light in uh Atlanta life life yes I'll be up there teaching a seminar up there in a few weeks oh wonderful oh yeah I have to I have

to get him your number but like what advice would you give them who are looking to integrate like holistic methods into their practice you know readers lead and leaders read got to read you know there's nothing that you can learn like you just there's no end to it you have to keep reading you have to keep learning and one of the biggest things that I've learned is from one of my mentors that I learned a lot

of um the trauma work that I do from is John Bandy you know one of the things that's really shaped the way that I do stuff is I I now read the same book four five six times in a row reading the same thing over and over and over again is so helpful um then that isn't that the um the meaning of insanity doing the same thing over expecting a different result just kiding people I have

read the I mean I've read thinking Grow Rich I think I have that on my shelf I think I've read it 14 times the brain changes itself how the brain changes itself um Deutsch is that yes I'm reading that right now that's on my sh I've read The Four Agreements in the vicinity of 11 times and every time I read it I pick something else up and is just one of these encouraging me all right I

you know it's funny so I read the poly vagal Theory the first time yeah and I said to myself okay once I read that about 10 more times then I think I'll get it and you know lucky for me because that book I his first book is not all that great that's not where I would start I would read you know polyal safety or one of these other ones the newer ones because I think it really

it's it's a lot lot less repetitive and it's really more pointed you know to what we actually you know the way you want to use it but you know I've read it over 10 times now I mean I've read his books at least 10 times if not I'm probably I I can guarantee definitely more um some of them I've read four or five times and so um but learn you know find people that are using this

stuff and go hang out with them go talk to them about it you know it's it's one thing to and it's like this with anything whether it's functional medicine or whether it's NE or whatever it is go find the people who are doing it watch how they're integrating it in real life and um and and for you know anybody that's been through trauma and not only that I take a brief moment here there's you know Peter

LaVine I really like and I read a book of his about childhood trauma and I was like I wish that I had read this before I had kids so that I would have been prepared for my kid to fall off her bike or something like that because like that is you know your trauma what you give to your kids from watching them go through this stuff you need to prepare for these things so that you can

be successful at helping them to grow so um and not give them more you know so but um you know become be anybody's been through trauma which I think everybody has become a student of this stuff you know you know big traumas and little traumas but like become a student of trauma understand and it'll just help you to understand the way it'll help you to understand yourself better so that you know those moments where you're crying

afterwards and you're really upset with the way you acted you understand why you acted that way and you can use that to help springboard you into being better in the future because we're meant to evolve we are we're meant to grow and learn while we're here on this Earth and not be stuck and if you have these failures that that hold you down then you know then you you then you then it was a failure but

if you have a failure that you can use to strategize about how to be successful that's resiliency that shows you resiliency that teaches you how to move forward and then you know because I really feel like things like that we grow we learn we and then you teach it right or you're like all right now it's now my turn as you get older and you get a little more grayer I bet you anything you're going to

be the one that's going to go okay like when you you were open enough to say no give your nephew my number that to me is like that's that's the in connection we need that connection of finding like-minded or that encouragement of others to help I mean we're all in this together people this whole world we're all in it together and it's a choice that you can make you can either choose to find the information get

into your intuition learn grow from everything that happens because it's not about comparing traumas either it is about taking your own stuff and figuring out okay am I going to make purpose out of this and resiliency or am I going to just stay stuck and just go around in the hamster wheel you know so final words of wisdom to share final words words any quote um yeah there's just so many um number one I think it's

really important for us all to read I think you know back to the readers lead leaders read but also the same thing you know I I love I lot I love a lot of the Forgiveness stuff and I I think um I think that's really really really important yes I age and um I kind of share one of my big um it's funny I I keep in touch with one of my professors from my engineering undergrad

and um I graduated in 2003 so we still keep in touch um and I was telling him years ago that one of my biggest mistakes I I made in my my first 10 years in practice was that I didn't use my mentors enough and he said you need to change that narrative that's not a failure that's just a lesson you learned and so I want to share that is make sure you reach out to people and

use your mentors and you know and and speak to people a lot of times we feel like we're on an island and we have to figure everything out ourselves when there's so many people that are just waiting for for a phone call or for an email or whatever it is to just say hey what do you think about this and you know you don't have to take their advice necessarily but you know gather the information you

know don't be afraid to reach out to people and uh and find and go find successful people and and and find what's what made them that way yeah that's wonderful all right so where can the audience find you um I have a YouTube on uh Dr J health and Instagram Dr J health and I think on Facebook we're at Dr J Cairo okay and Dr J health is my website okay so d r j a y

Health a and it'll all be in the show notes thank you for joining me today yeah I I I could probably come up with 100 more questions but maybe at another uh episode or something all right yeah all right everybody thank you for joining us today and don't forget to trust in the Lord guard your heart and renew your mind bye and now for the disclaimer to make sure you understand that you are respons responsible for

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