Talking Politics Without Losing Your Mind—or Your Relationships | Kelsey Blahnik, LCSW-S, Author of The And Way: Assertive Peacemaking in a Divided World

Hello there, fearfully and wonderfully made human. Welcome to the Holistic Counselor podcast brought to you by Through the Valley Therapy and Transform Mind Consulting and Coaching, where faith, science, and holistic healing collide. I'm your host Diana S. Rice, licensed mental health counselor and certified integrative mental health professional here to have the kind of conversations most people are afraid to start.

Today's topic hits close to home. Politics, mental health, and the mess in between. Let's be real. Families are divided. Friendships are ghosted. And everyone's tired of feeling angry or hopeless. But what if healing division isn't about picking sides, but about learning how to stay human in the middle of it?

My guest today, Kelsey Blanik, LCSW, gets this work on a soul level. She's a clinician, advocate, and author of the new book, The AND Way: Assertive Peacemaking in a Divided World. Kelsey co-hosts Love Anyway Gatherings with Search for Common Ground, helping people do something radical these days.

Talk and listen without losing themselves. I first discovered Kelsey after attending a Braver Angels mental health workshop and her presentation hit me hard. She gave language to something I think we all feel, the exhaustion of constant conflict, and showed that healing starts inside us before it ever happens out there.

So whether you lean red, blue, or feel stuck in the middle like me, a self-proclaimed Ella Funky purple, this episode isn't about sides. It's about sanity, compassion, and learning how to keep your peace in a divided world. So, Kelsey, thank you for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.

All right, so let's get to it. Well, first of all, what first drew you to become a therapist and then how did your journey end up here? Like with Braver Angels? Like I never even heard of them until I was like on Eventbrite and my algorithm did me a favor and I said, "Okay, here check this out."

And I said, "All right." I w I was available that day and then I heard your presentation and I was just like, "Oh, please. I want you on."

Yes. So I have actually always wanted to be a therapist since I was a teenager. I knew so early on that this is exactly that I wanted to be a social worker anyway.

And so I um I lost a friend in a car accident when I was 15. and went to see the school social worker and she was so impactful and then I was referred to a a private practice therapist and she made a huge impact on my life and I said I want to do that.

I looked up on at the diploma on her wall and she had a social work degree. I didn't even know social workers were counselors because a lot of times we get that uh we only associate them and I remember when I graduated people would always assume that just social workers work with CPS but they do so many so many different roles and that's what I love about social work is that you can work with a ton of different populations.

I've worked in many different roles either as a case manager and a clinician over the last 15 years. Um and so I've never looked back. I feel so fulfilled in my job as a therapist and as a social worker and I've I'm I'm very confident this is exactly what I was meant to do.

I love that. So, you know, that's your calling. So, how did you end up with Braver Angels? C do you know a little bit more about Brave? Because honestly, I've only gone to two meetings and I'm brand new at at going there and I know why I went there, but how did you get involved?

I think that the first time I heard of Braver Angels was actually through the Love Anyway gatherings that I do with it was originally called Preemptive Love Coalition, a peacemaking coalition that's um spread around the world. We started meeting in Orlando in person initially and then my co-host who's amazing um Sadia, she ended up uh starting all these groups all over the place.

Started working for Preemptive Love Coalition and now I don't even know how many, you know, dozens of groups there are all over the place. They do love anyway gatherings, these feasts every year.

What?

And it's amazing. And they

I haven't even heard of this until just now. So I need a is can you tell me a little more about that? I mean, do they have something in South Florida?

Yes, they there idea is that you bring together people of different backgrounds and that could be religiously, that could be racially, that could be politically, it does of any kind. Our group happened to be a group a sisterhood, a group of women that um came from, it was more of an interfaith concept to begin with.

And um it's ended up we bring up the most controversial topics and I mean one month we're talking about abortion, the next month we're talking about gun rights, the next month we're talking about Charlie Kirk and the next month, you know, every time we're bringing these things up.

And even if we happen to have a group where not everybody's completely on different sides, we still bring up how could we look from another perspective? how could we try to understand our brothers and sisters that are in a different place on this issue rather than just demonize them?

And so it's brought up some really great conversations um and just a depth in relationship with people that don't even we have people from Canada that join us now. It's virtual. So we have people all over the place that that um can join.

Um some of them are in person, some of them are virtual and they're the ones who told me about Braver Angels, which is a really amazing nonprofit that u conducts all these workshops and debates. They're very um I wouldn't formal makes it sound stuffy, but it's more they they have a very specific process to everything, so it's very well-managed.

Um and

yeah, guidelines like

it doesn't get out of hand too easily. Yes.

Right. Because we're we're what I'm seeing is they're not trying to um create I hate to say it like the clickbait of the algorithm that we're all addicted to. You know what I mean? Because echo chambers and everything like that. what they're trying to do is diffuse those situations in order for us to have conversations like we're doing now or how they did for mental health.

I want to know more about did you what was the name preemptive uh what was the name of it again? It was preemptive love coalition.

Now it's called search for common ground is search for common ground and they do amazing work all over the place and um and now Braver Angels they offer a mental health form specifically for mental health professionals month and that's for mental health professionals of any political background to come in and learn about a tough topic. like one one month uh you know I presented another month somebody talked about gun culture um another month somebody's talking about

gender identity and how that um um is influenced by um the mental health field and so it's it's another great opportunity to be struck by different perspectives and you're you know in the context of the mental health profession.

So for the one year that you started with or or started the search for common ground um is that for anybody that wants to come in or is that for just mental clinical professionals?

No, that's for everybody. Yeah, that's my friend started this in Orlando to just be for absolutely anybody to be a part of it. And um I know I mentioned that one in particular was started as a women's group, but there are some groups that are you know just for anybody or maybe there's like a young adults group or you know everybody can just start the one that they want it to the way they want it to look.

Okay. Yeah. And anybody

in South Florida.

I know. And and anybody listening right now of course I'll search and find the um website. They have websites I'm sure. Right. So somebody Yeah. So somebody could actually How do you prevent and this is the thing. This is what I liked about Braver Angels cuz they really are like they have questions before you could come in.

How does Search for Common Ground hold the line because you know you have people out there that are mean. I don't know how else to explain it that come in and they're just wanting to blow things up and and I'm talking about with words, you know.

How how do you know how they keep that uh those guidelines or to be able to keep everyone safe, emotionally safe?

Since I haven't joined a new group before, I'm not sure how they okay they do that official start for a new group and make sure that they have some some sort of guidelines. But for the group that I'm a part of, it's kind of that you rely on.

We're co-hosts and so kind of the co-hosts are relied on to keep the spirit of the event going in the direction that we intended. So there are often times things that my dear friends will say that, you know, just really end up being a polarizing statement and I I agree with them and yet I still invite them into, you know, a disrespect presenting it.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, we we do that kind of calling in call-in culture within our group. Um, even even when we agree with one another, just so that we're trying to do our best to uphold the the dignity of the people that aren't even necessarily right in front of us, but the dignity of the people that aren't in the room, too.

I love that. I love it. Okay, so now we're going to get into your book, The Anway: Mental Health in a Divided World. It is so timely that you created that, right? Why why that?

like you could have written if you've been in in this practice for 15 years and I'm sure you could have written about so many different things but you chose this why yeah I have lived in all sort of places I've lived on in coasts all over the country mainly but in purple places blue places red places and in every place I have found amazing good people and so I've always been heartbroken by the way that we

talk about how we other folks on the other side of the aisle um when I know there are good people on the other side of the aisle that I just happen to humanly disagree with.

And so uh I I have just felt so passionate about that and really believe that there are so many things I've learned from my mental health journey that allow me to look at them with compassion that I want to be able to share.

And I see constantly as I work with teens and adults and I see constantly the division in families, the the anxiety and hopelessness that this creates in them individually when they turn on the news and they feel so stuck like nothing's going to change or there's no way to get back from that.

All those kind of statements have just prompted me to feel like this is where my energy is best used right now. Um because it is just like this this simmering tension underneath the surface all day every day for every one of us even if we're not necessarily seeing it and paying attention to it.

Wow. Okay. So let's go into that othering or us versus them. Right. How do you approach that? Because I know that I I've had to do especially during uh COVID, right? I think that's something that came to the surface hardcore in 2020 politically and um yeah.

So, first of all, when when you did you probably did some research to create this book, what did you see? Because there we've had politics since the beginning of this country. Okay. Right. And some of it, if you know history, like it's it's it's some things flip-flopped and you know, we we have a lot of pain and hurt in different um walks of life here.

And what what was it like that really got you to take that step back so you don't get sucked into the vortex?

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Yes. The pandemic is when I decided to actually start writing the book because of all the the division that I experienced. And I for the I lived in a very purple place in Orlando, one of the most purple counties in the country. And it was so clear to me how uncomfortable everyone was even communicating their boundaries.

They would have there was a lot of talking behind closed doors about how ridiculous the other group or other person was rather than just coming out to the other person saying, "This is my preference. this is what I would like this to look like or this is why this is the why behind the choices that I'm making.

And I felt so strongly that if we were able to communicate like that, we would be able to see each other as a lot more human and understand even if we didn't choose to make a different choice about masking or vaccinating or any of those things that we would be able to respect one another a lot more if we had those conversations.

So I started writing in response to that. The other moment that really sticks out to me is actually many years before that, probably in 2015, I remember being at a restaurant with some friends, a big group of us, a bunch of couples, and I made some comment like, "Well, I mean, at least we can all agree this candidate's better than like at least better than that candidate."

And everybody was silent.

Oh. Ah. And I went I I was shocked because I thought there was I was so I was so polarized within that I assumed anybody that I would be in contact with would at least think this was ridiculous that this was you know just as shocking to me as they do as as they would.

And they were all quiet and they said not everybody does feel that way. And I realized I was actually all deeply connected with a whole group of people that were felt very differently about how the next election was going to go. And it really struck me as an opportunity for me to understand and respect them more instead of instead of just making more or isolating myself.

I mean, there was a part of me that just wanted to say, I'm I'm done with these people. I'm so disgusted. I'm I'm going to walk away. And then there was a part of me that wanted to explode and go, "How could you?

How dare you?" And so then instead of leaning into one of those extremes, I decided to move forward with the Anway. And that's how I developed this model is assertively peacemaking, being able to still engage them, still respect them, and never change my convictions, just still be able to to honor the relationship.

All right. So let's talk about the model, okay?

without giving because you know you want them people to buy the book to understand it better but let's give them a taste of that because I know you you said parts and I understand as a therapist but a lot of those that are listening haven't you know I that's what I like to teach because even though I might have like 10 uh people that come on talk about IFS internal family systems everybody has a different point

of view and are are able to explain it in a way that might um hit now differently for the person that's listening Right.

So, let's talk about the model. Like, what do you mean model?

Yes. I love I've loved listening to how different people on your podcast have described IFS. That is a really neat thing because I love hearing the different language that can that just settles settles differently on on others. And I really find that visuals help explain IFS a lot better, too.

Uh so it's you know if you want to visualize this with me um the the way that I describe the ANY model is a mix of parts work and dialectics conflict re resolution the treatment um there's a lot of different elements combined from dialectical behavior therapy um there's just a lot of things that I move together with this idea that there's not one right way.

It's more looking at rather than two extremes integrating a lot of different things that work together. Um, so with parts language, it's not that I necessarily promote we have to go through the exact IFS, you know, formula, but I use parts language constantly because it resonates with me so deeply.

So IFS is this idea that we all have a true self, our, you know, that our most compassionate, calm, creative, um, curious self. And when we're in that sense of self, there's this there's this innate goodness within each one of us. And there is a an equal parts compassion for others and for ourselves.

So it doesn't have to just be one way or the other. And that's something that really sticks out to me about when we're in self. And then naturally because of all the pain that we experience as human beings, there are inevitably ways that we protect ourselves that then sometimes that means we we activate we put up our shield and we sometimes act in a way that's outside of our values.

We act in a way that's not calm. We act in a way that's not curious but more judgmental or reactive. Uh we act in a way that's not compassionate and rather, you know, going back to the judgment or more isolating rather than connected.

Um, it's funny all those words that we associate with IFS that have to do with self all start with C. It makes it easier to remember. I think they're all so accurate. Uh, and so these parts of us that put a shield up that defend us, those are parts of another way of calling them in IFS language is protectors.

And so my my main uh goal in doing this this peacemaking work is for us to be able to look at one another's responses and reactions as protctors as parts that somebody puts a shield up in responding. And the more that we can be in true self that we can be curious with the other person, we can be calm, we can be connected, the less likely it is for them to have to put that shield up and be as reactive.

And so we have a better chance of them being able to be in a sense of self as well. And it's not that we're going to be, you know, when I say calm, it's not that we're going to be just monotone and and relaxed and all that all the time.

It's passion is a beautiful thing. And that's that's why there are a lot of protectors that serve us very well. There are a lot of protector. I mean, every single protector serves us well in some way. Um, and there are a lot of protectors that just go into overdrive.

We overcorrect with them. So, for example, um, as a helper, I I'm really glad that I have this helping protective instinct when I see somebody struggling. And then there's a way I could do that in overdrive where if I was going compassionate outwardly only and then forgot to take care of myself, then I've I've passed the line and it's no longer serving me well and I'm probably not going to be of great service to others eventually as well.

So that's the that's the basis that really drives the the andway model is being able to look at yourselves and at others as having a positive intention and protecting oneself with those those reactive responses and knowing that there's still a a good inside.

Yeah, I mean that makes a lot of sense.

So what do we do with the clients that come in right with their exile part or and so with IFS there's exiles and firefighters and managers right and to me I know um back in 2020 what I saw because I was working in the public school system and I and I get it like I try to sit back to understand everybody's point of view that's a training that we have as therapists right but I also was

like that as a child honestly since I was a little girl, like I would sit back and observe everything um just to have an understanding why someone's behaving the way they are.

But when you don't have that skill set, what would be the first things that you would do with your clients, Kelsey? Because especially when it comes to this political situation that um you know, I mean, I saw some some horrible things happening during co I'm sure you did too. all of us did like the mental health um of many people.

It was a first of all it was a global traumatic situation number one. Number two then you had the political right and then um number three I worked with adolescence only and then their family and it's just like oh my goodness like it was so what did you do when that fear walked into your door and it was about politics?

it was about, you know, my husband or my father or mother or they're getting divorced because of the, you know, I mean, there was some stuff. How did you handle how did you handle that

with the client in particular?

Yes. Yeah.

Number one, I start with humanizing the other person. Um, number one is let's try, you know, being able to practice compassion is so difficult. Being able to practice empathy is so difficult. And so being able to access that is huge and that opens up so much more opportunity for effective, productive conflict.

Um because I'm all about conflict. I think conflict's really important. It's just the way that we go about it is is where we can cause a lot of harm. I'm a harm reductionist to my core. I believe that we're just trying to reduce harm, that we're not getting we're not going to get to a place where we have absolutely no conflict.

I don't even want a world that looks like that. Um so it's not that piece is the absence of of conflict.

Um, so I would start with that and trying to if you know for example if we've worked if we've established a a little understanding of IFS already working together I may ask them in your most compassionate self how could you see their perspective or what do you think was going on for him when he said that or um knowing knowing a little bit more about his history why do you think he responded that way that kind

of thing and um it's I mean people have this amazing capacity for compassion compassion when it's evoked um instead of when they're activated by fear.

Um and so

that's it.

Yeah,

that's it. Activated by fear. I think we need to go into that because I really know that the false evidence appearing real, right? That's fear. False evidence appearing real, Kelsey, is what causes the human to go into this spin out. And they have every right to, right?

Like we know that when you have your client in front of you, they have every right to to have all the emotions and the feelings. So, how do we teach the listener who who's feeling like so and so is wrong, the othering, how do we calm that down, especially with your model?

My favorite phrase is it makes sense because it starts with being able to acknowledge my fear makes sense and their fear makes sense. And that's why that and is so critical. It's not just, you know, I'm I'm I didn't mention earlier when you referenced history.

I'm a huge history nerd. And I think that's another reason why I'm so passionate about politics and and you know, being able to find humanity in one another, knowing the way that that dehumanization can cause such huge atrocities. And so I I look at the way that people have been harmed in the past and how that activates fear in them.

Somebody that's had my experience, someone from my population or someone from my country has gone through this and then out of fear of that happening again, I want to I want to put up my protector and make sure that doesn't happen to people I love or to me again.

Um, and then we also have to look at there's been harm done all the way around in a lot of different areas and a to a lot of different people for different reasons. And so being able to hold both my experience and someone else's experience is critical.

So I can I can acknowledge it makes sense. I'm wanting to isolate because they don't feel safe to me anymore. This group doesn't feel safe to me anymore. And it makes sense they, you know, came down on me. they pointed their finger at me because they're really afraid that, you know, blank is going to happen to them, that they're going to get um, you know, they're going to feel rejected if I'm right.

Um, if it turns out that I'm right about this. So, being able to say it makes sense not just about my my fear and my experience, putting that and in the middle and then going, it makes sense they're reacting this way that their shield went up.

Yeah. I love the and honestly because that's also you said dialect dialectical, right? DB DBT you're talking about? Yeah.

Okay. So, let's talk a little bit about that because that's really helpful because sometimes when you're in that fear and you're disregulated because honestly that's where all that emotion comes up.

I would think that um especially with your like how do you run those those groups at the love anyway gatherings because that would be something where if you're having you know so and so that's a Republican maybe there's an alt-riter all the way to the most liberal person you can possibly have right or the like one religion to another religion and they're there with wanting to be right because that's what I see a lot I want

to be right and that's when I ask do you want want the relationship or do you want to be right?

Like, let me know how I can help you.

I love that phrase. You want the relationship or do you want to be right?

You know, because that's the thing. And that makes them sit back and then when the anger comes, you know, we process it. Go ahead, be angry. I'm not trying to suppress your anger. You're here paying me for a service

and you want to, you know, you're you have every right to have all those emotions, but you get to choose what you're going to do with them right now. Mhm. And the thing with having a relationship or being right is you don't have to pick one or the other indefinitely, but you can pick one or the other in each moment.

And each moment you get another, you know, I can choose a relationship right now knowing that I'm investing in a relationship that maybe doesn't have the doesn't have the investment yet that warrants me to be able to come out and say something. Maybe they won't actually receive it yet because we're not that close or or whatnot.

And then there are times where no, I need to I need to come out and say this thing that's that's very important to me. and the relationship risk is worth you know saying saying something that's this so it's not one or the other forever it's just we do have to make that choice in the moment over and over

to speak a little bit to dialectics I'm I'm so grateful for and because change and acceptance is where dialectics got introduced to our field to the mental health field because people were recognizing just focusing on change change change wasn't working people were feeling really stuck and it's a critical thing for my clients and and for myself um and I think it's so powerful for us as clinicians or as activists as advocates because we can recognize the

change that I want to make or the change I'm making right now even if it's small you know whatever way I'm contributing as this you know one human out of all these humans and I have to accept something that's out of my control so the the phrases go something like this um I'm contributing to peacem making by reflecting on my own inner world by trying to trying to humanize everyone in my own heart and I can't

control what everyone else is going to do or I can't I can't change American politics overnight, right?

So, I'm consistently making those phrases for myself to recognize I I still have value. I still have a way to contribute. So, there's not that sense of hopelessness and helplessness that comes with this work um or with social work in general. Um, and there's something out of my control.

That's all these other people out there. And being able to accept is something really, really difficult for people. I work a lot with anxiety, OCD, and trauma. And so, there's a lot of acceptance necessary in that work cuz there's a lot of safety that's out of our control.

Things that have already happened to us that are out of our control. They've already happened. There's a lot of the way that other people respond to us is out of our control. And so, being able to hold both of those is really powerful.

Yeah. Yeah. And teaching people that they can cuz some people feel that they have to stay there. You know what I mean? Like they they feel like, you know, and that's why I keep when I when I work with some of my clients, it's like, okay, fear is false evidence appearing real at times, right?

I mean, there's there's your brain's keeping you safe at all times. And so feeder I mean is protects you but when you're stuck in it right in the anxiety or in the OCD or in the mindset of rumination of like oh my gosh the world's ending and it's because of them

right it's like how do you know what can we tell someone right now if they're going through that you know like where to start like how because you have to regulate yourself because you can't do this work with someone that comes in in a crisis of like, oh my gosh, you know, like so and so I I was online.

Because to me, it all began once the smartphone made us dumb. you know, we've given power over to media so much because honestly, I mean, I grew up in the late 1900s and I politics, you know, I remember when I first voted and learned about it and I was learning history and understanding of like, oh, okay, oh, that makes sense.

Nowadays, though, because we have, this is what aggravates me. This is a a tool. The phone is a tool, right, Kelsey? But people forget it's a tool. Instead, they think it's the the holy grail

of life and they believe everything and they're already feeling a certain way and now they're layering more and more and the algorithm is now giving them an echo chamber and so now how do we deal with this? What do you think? Like I want to go there because I think that that would be interesting to see how you you see things.

Yeah, it's a great point that smartphones make it a lot tougher to use your critical thinking. It makes it a lot tougher to to humanize one another because we're constantly being inundated with dehumanizing content. And um that we're all also taking in very different content than one another and then assuming we're having similar reactions to the same content.

It's just very different content. The perfect example of that for me was just a few weeks ago. Well, I'll say first when when Charlie Kirk was murdered, it was all of us seeing very different clips of his work and then assuming, you know, a how could you interpret it that way and how could you interpret it that way?

Well, because we're looking at very different clips of the same person. And then a a very light-hearted version of that was uh the day that Taylor Swift announced her or uh put out her new album just a few weeks ago. My whole feed was all Taylor Swift's new album is coming out.

My whole experience was that's what the world cares about. And

I didn't even know it came out.

Nobody tons of people didn't even know.

Right. Exactly. So there I would, you know, I was wearing my my my daughter's a big swifty too and we were wearing our matching shirts that day and then people I was I was interacting with people that didn't even know it was happening and I went, "Wow, that is fascinating that this is what the algorithms fed me to believe that the whole world's revolving around this celebration that tons of people don't even know about or care about.

So there is just a constant misinterpretation there as well."

Yeah. Well, no. I think that's important for us to talk about, Kelsey, because now I I I see that we're from different generations now that you said that because I'm like, wait, Taylor Swift. Oh, wait. Who is that? Oh, yeah. Now I remember who that is.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, and so that's important for our listeners to hear. Like, how do you, whoever's listening right now, take a step back and have critical thinking skills? How? because that is something when I work with the 25 to 35 year olds or who I usually work with um when I I know how to question things because I come from the 1900s and they're just like I never thought of that.

I'm like I and it's okay because that's why we need to to now understand we all need each other.

You know what I mean? and and we need to to like you said humanize and instead of other for safety cuz that's what I see. It's like we're othering people to feel safe so we don't feel alone. And it's like scientifically proven. You know, you you're in a tribal state and you want to, you know, protect the the tribe.

But what you just stated, right, it's that is the situation. I think that's why we have such a, you know, we can have all the medication we want and all the mental health we want, but why is everyone why is the society anxiety and depression getting higher and higher?

Is it because we have more testing or is it because we have 24/7 of the whole world's AI news in our hands and we're believing every tiny little thing?

Mhm. Yeah. I really hope that in general as much whenever we're receiving some kind of content and you know a video or something that we're checking where is that from before believing it. Um, I know there have been a a ton of videos I've seen recently that I'm curious immediately, is this real?

And unfortunately, a lot of times it is real, but I want to make sure that first of all, it's real, that it's actually a video of what it says the in the title that it's about, and then that it comes from a reputable source that um is not made up.

I mean, this this new generation of of believing like guy in the garage is what it freaks me out is that somehow we're giving more validity to like somebody in their home that has no like journalistic team or somebody like kind of keeping them accountable.

It's like some, you know, an influencer that um that has an opinion. And I I love hearing all those different opinions. I just want to make sure that we're calling it that. You know, this is an opinion piece and not assuming that it's fact until we look up some of the sourcing.

But not everybody knows how to do that. And that's the thing. This is something I learned back at Tallahassee Community College back in my undergrad degree where I took a course I want to call I forgot ethnic and something and they they showed us how from the beginning of from radio to TV and why even the news is just a form of entertainment and it's propaganda.

And I'm sitting there like, you know, I'm 19 years old and I'm sitting there like, "Oh my goodness. Oh my god, this is so this is great." And so this is I mean I have a bachelor's in social science. So it was me learning, you know, political science and social science and understanding.

And ever since then, I've been a skeptic.

Honestly, Kelsey, I have, you know, I worry for my grandchildren.

Okay? Because if we're going towards this, right, we cannot hide from AI. We cannot hide from from social media.

I don't I don't ever say just you know sometimes I we do detoxes you know but it is going how do we utilize it as a tool and curate it for our benefit not take it in like a drug right you know like caffeine could be really super bad for you if you drink 10 cups of coffee a day and you're have feeling like you're having a heart attack and your anxietyy's through the roof and you're not sleeping.

Mhm.

So, how do we utilize these things for the future?

It is so tricky to do that on social media because the last thing you want to do is like or follow some content that you think is really problematic or you really disagree with or what you know that the way to get more of that and to even out your experience is by following liking stuff that and so an alternative um because I'm not I'm not much on social media um as it is and I don't actually keep it on my phone whatsoever that helps me a lot.

Um, so every once in a while I'll download it for, you know, being on vacation or, you know, posting a couple pictures of family or something. But, um, I am a big fan of some really amazing news organizations like all sides.

They they will put up the titles of, you know, five different news organizations interpretation on the same event. And it is pretty fascinating to see the different ways that they're even titling this. You know, it'll I give an example in my book of when um former President Carter passed and it was like um the best president ever passed away and then the next one was like the worst president ever passed away.

It was almost that extreme.

And so to they they also even indicate underneath the title and the link to the the full article whether they lean far left, center, right. And so and there's like five different um different subcategories. And so it's a that's a really good resource for folks to check out.

I'm also a big fan of Tangle News. Um they do a great job of being as nonpartisan as possible while still being very opinionated but really highlighting this is my opinion here and then being very intentional about this is the more of an interpretation from the right, this is more of an interpretation from the left and then this is my opinion.

And so I I really try to emphasize that type of news. Then you also can I en encourage my clients to be really familiar with what kind of news intake is most inflammatory to you. I know for me visuals are very inflammatory for me.

So I really try to read my news as much as possible. It also eliminates some of those propaganda features of sound and um and visuals that are intentionally trying to create fear. I mean essentially they they're trying to create fear.

Um and so and that was really evident during the pandemic. it was just so in my face that I I really stepped away from visual news as much as possible. Um, and so I love the the practice as well of recognizing what's most inflammatory and then also trying to move my body immediately after I've been exposed to something upsetting.

Um, some, you know, some kind of news that I know fires me up, whether it's because I'm really passionate about something or because it causes a lot of fear in me. So, I try to walk. Um, if I'm going to listen and use news, it's going to be while I'm walking, not while I'm just stuck driving or not while I'm stuck sitting on my phone like in a line.

Um, so as much as I can get movement in response to some of that intake is also really useful to digest it.

Well, that's so important. I mean, well, have you heard of Ground News? Do you know about them?

Oh, no. I'll check them.

I think I think Ground News might be like that, too. Like all sides as well. And but honestly, I've been on a news fast probably for decades. Ever since I took that class, I realized and then actually something happened down here in South Florida that I was part of and the media chased me down because of a client.

Let's just say that. And I realized like, wait, what was happening in real time with with what was happening was not what the news was reporting. And I realized I'm like, well, I learned that, too. And then in 1997, there was a tornado that hit my neighborhood and they were out there like with the, you know, the sensationalism and I'm going the fence is down.

Does that make sense? Like so I realized I'm like oh they sometimes that's but that's why it's super important to when you're looking at something to understand first of all what it's doing to all five of your senses,

right? M

to understand what it's doing and why are you choosing to allow that in

and after you take it in, be still and see how it's moving through your system. If it's something that's firing you up in a positive good way that you're going to be a person that becomes an advocate that that because we need we need people that make change, right?

That's what we do here. This is the beauty of our country, right? We we do we we have situations and then there's people that change the situation, but not the way it's happening now where people are just murdering people and just angry and assumptions.

I mean, that's the thing. It's like, are you reacting in wisdom, you know, or or are you reacting in in just emotion? Are you responding in wisdom? Like, how do we do that, Kelsey? How do we, you know, what do what do we do now?

Because by the time this comes out, it will be February, right? And then we're going to have another season. It just seems like it's going to get worse with AI and all these fake videos and these, you know, and politicians, you know, trying to eat each other up.

And that's what I really, Kelsey, that's what gets me really upset is where I'm looking and I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not voting for either one of you because you're both just I want to know what you're doing for the people, not pointing out everybody else's demons.

Like, stop doing that. Why don't we figure out how we're going to help those that, you know, the women the the orphans and the widows? I'm I'm a Christian. So, you know, how are we going to help those that need? You know, that's what we're I feel we're meant to do.

We all have a purpose. We all have a reason to be here. And how are we all going to get along? I know everybody that knows me personally thinks I want to sit around and, you know, uh play Kumbaya in a in a drum circle and that's would be beautiful.

But the reality is, how do we just live right now within our own homes in peace?

The going to biblical reference since you went there, I think about like identifying the log in your own eye. And that's one of the when you were saying most of us are looking around like how why are you, you know, so focused on taking the other person down as opposed to looking inward.

And that's why my book's all about self-healing leads to world healing. If we could be more honest with ourselves that we're in inner conflict too, that we have hypocrisy within each one of us, then we'd be a lot more generous with seeing the hypocrisy in somebody else.

And seeing someone's inner conflict play out where one day they operate this way and another day they sometimes operate that way. They're not all always patient and always kind. They're also not always evil and always condescending. You know that we're and that's in this and that we're in Halloween season right now.

And so in this time frame when I'm thinking all these villains and and these villains are monsters and then all these good guys, the heroes that gets that gets played out um so in such a binary way. And I'm a big fan of being able to look at ourselves with a little more honesty that there's, you know, the log in our own eye.

There's there's mess in there. There's uh there are ways that I'm protecting myself that are causing harm either myself or others sometimes and they go into extreme. the same way that that's happening to my fellow man. So, um I think reflecting inward allows us to have some more of that compassion outward.

Yeah. Taking responsibility for ourselves. I mean, that's super important. And realize that we have the power to do so.

Or even recognizing I have that inclination. And maybe I'm not even acting on it.

But maybe the fact that if I have the inclination to want to scream, you know, when that at that dinner party I wanted to scream at people and the fact that I didn't, maybe that's because I've had enough examples in front of me or I've had enough practice or I've had enough exposure to tools through therapy or I've had enough uh connection with those people that that allowed me to not react in that way.

And yet I can still relate to somebody who has the inclination to want to do that. And then maybe they don't have the same history and experience that I have to to not have that explosion in that moment. They're just like that's maybe they've had the opposite messaging that that's the way you get stuff done.

Their messaging around conflict could have been that's the way you get heard is by being as loud as possible. Or their message could have been, you know, the only way you can get your way is by isolating. And so that's why they react that way.

Um and so I can relate to that inclination, that protective instinct, that shield going up. um even if it's not the same way that I chose to actually intervene.

Yeah. So, besides your book, what other resources do you know out there? Maybe other books or um websites or that can help somebody to because not everybody can afford therapy,

right?

But people are listening now that you know maybe there's a tool and remember like please seek your mental health or you know medical doctor because we have to always put that disclaimer out there cuz these are just you know this is for educational purposes but it's like where does someone start like they're listening and they're like yeah like I'm really upset I'm angry I'm you know I feel this I feel that where would you have them go, you know, like I'm thinking of uh the four agreements, that book, right?

Because it teaches you a skill set. I really think how not to take things personal,

right? Always do your best.

Um I'm trying to think the other two right now. Sorry, it's early in the morning.

Yeah. I my favorite book that I wish everyone in the world would read is called What Happened to You by Dr. Bruce Perry and Oprah. And it's very powerful. I um hope that and it's got a great audiobook version and that's sometimes easier to digest too uh because they kind of make it a conversation.

It almost sounds like a really long podcast. It's great by both written or or by audio. Um and he mentioned Dr. Perry mentions in that book that something that I really advocate for as part of the Annway.

It's not just therapy is not the only way to healing by any means. in facts not the right thing for some people you know that's not even in the top few for some people um looking at ways that you heal your body like rhythm rhythmic dancing that has always has been like you know it's an indigenous practice that's been available to us always of being able to have mantras and have movement rhythmic movement rhythmic drumming you know anything that allow our bodies to have that that bilateral stimulation or or any kind of rocking pattern.

Those things are all really healing for our body. Um and that's and you know, I'm a big fan of walking. Any kind of movement that you can be getting in, especially if you can move with other people, I think that's always really empowering.

Or moving in nature. Um finding sources of connection and and movement that are not necessarily like sitting in therapy. I love a walk-and talk therapy. I love that option. Um massage is another great option. Listening to music in general or like dancing alone in your room.

I think that those are all just as healing of opportunities. And then I will say I'm I'm a very holistic um practitioner as well. And so it has to start for me at the foundation of your your nutrition and your sleep um and and your just your basic health has to come first before your body can even take on new mental health tips and meditation and things that we have to be well enough to even absorb some of those suggestions.

So I would start there before anywhere else is making sure that someone's health is in a good place.

I agree and it's and it's to me as well like during the pandemic I wrote two uh poetry books. One one that's like a Christianbased that I was studying the Bible. Another one was because of what was happening within my office and and just the things I was seeing.

So I had to process things out. And that's the thing journaling, open mics, poetry, right? I love the movement because that's the physical body. Um, uh, letterw writing.

I would have clients write a letter to whatever that was happening, the person that they were against or whatever it was because I worked with adolescence and and and so the the injustices and stuff, we would write that out and we would either like I had a person that wrote it on a plate and then hammered it out like crushed it and it felt good.

So, it's thematic and honestly like you're letting it out. crying, screaming, one of those primal screams. I've had that happen before. And it's okay to do these things because you you because it is grief. It could be a collective grief of a of a group of people.

I mean, that's what I've seen on in most of my life when it came to political things when I'm listening and hearing the sides, right? But we need to remember, united we stand, divided we fall. M

okay. So Kelsey, in the last minutes here, is there anything else you would like to say to the audience and maybe where to find you and if they can work with you and where you're located, all all the things.

Sure. Yes. So um our practice, the Anway Therapy is in both Texas and Florida. We have virtual therapists in both states and um we specialize in each one of us has kind of our own niche, but overall the practice we focus a lot on OCD and trauma and couples work.

I love working with couples who are polarized within their marriage politically and and healing the conflict there. Um, and then I have my book website, the nwaypress.com, um, is a way to find out more about the book and my speaking engagements and and things like that.

And I also provide CEUs for mental health professionals. My CEUs are um, ASWB nationally approved. So, if you want to take my course on politics, mental health, and ethics, there's you can get ethics CEUs. Um, there's some on preventing burnout. um and ERP exposure and response prevention as well.

Oh my goodness, this is great. I think everything will be in the show notes everybody and I really appreciate your time and having this conversation with me and you know everybody please do not forget to trust in the Lord. Guard your heart and renew your mind.

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