Navigating Relationships from SYMBIS to PCOS - Real Stories and Support Strategies

hello there fearfully and wonderfully made human welcome back to the holistic counselor podcast in our last episode we explored the daunting realm of fear and my impending trip to Spain I'm delighted to report that I'm back obviously and my candid discussion about my challenges truly paid off I na ated the entire Journey without a hint of anxiety desp despite a bout of illness Just 4 days in and I'm still kind of trying to recover from that

this's experience reaffirmed the power of the of the face everything and Rise Philosophy from episode 13 truly embodying these teachings can transform our lives so go check it out but today for episode 14 it's my pleasure to introduce a truly inspiring guest Deborah richelo hello hello yes yes you did that was perfect as a licensed marriage and family therapist in South Florida Deborah brings profound insights into couples and premarital counseling with her Christ centered approach she's

part of the focus on the Family's Christian counselor's Network and a simus did I say that right simus simus certified premarital counselor yes there we go and then Deborah's professional and personal narratives are deeply influenced by her ongoing battle with PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome a prevalent cause of infertility that profoundly affects mental health self-image and marital Dynamics she courageously shares these experiences on her YouTube channel the rich couch and on Instagram at richly Deb having met

Deborah through the Christian mental health professionals of Florida and after joining her on an Instagram live right yes and it was my very first one right wasn't that my very first one it was our second one actually together we did one planned and then we did one impromptu no but the planned one was my very first one you're right you're right so you were my first that's an honor anyway um let's see and and so we

had we did that together and then um I asked her to come on to be on the mental Wellness Ministry event as a panelist for grace church and it was titled bill building and maintaining strong relationships even though we faced technical difficulties during the event so it wasn't recorded which I wish I wish it was but let me tell you a lot of people really were impressed and so as the moderator of that event it gave

me a deeper glimpse into Deborah's heart and I knew I would love to have you here on my show so Deborah works at therapy Terrace Counseling Center correct correct okay where she and her team are committed to nurturing strong healthy Christ centered marriages they believe such unions form the Cornerstone of vibrant families and church communities so without further delay let's extend a warm welcome to Deborah thank you for being here thank you for having me I

feel so honored so I need to um make things clear about what simus is yes it's not Simba from Lion King it's simus yes so simus stands for saving your marriage before it starts simus is an created by DRS Les and Leslie parrot they're both psychologists out of Washington state okay and what they did was they created this assessment tool that was really needed um to be able to help couples who are trying to get engaged

okay so so a couple come into your office and so okay so it's like premarital counseling in a way where right it's a premarital counseling tool okay yeah all right so what will happen is a couple will reach out to us on through a 30 minute uh free consultation call and they'll tell me you know they're so in love and they're so excited to you know get married in 2025 and they would like to uh set

up a premarital counseling um package with us and typically our premarital sessions are anywhere from 8 to 10 sessions okay and that gives us enough time so that we can cover different topics that uh sometimes couples do not discuss before making such a huge can you tell me a few of those things that you you found out being a couple therapist so as a couple therapist I have learned believe it or not um one of the

touchy subjects for engaged couples or even those who were newly married they've already made the commitment right there is a lack of transparency in finances oh gosh that has been it's it's supposed to be one session but I know in the back of my mind a lot of times a couples doesn't know in the back of my mind this is going to be two sessions right because and sometimes even three because of a lack of transparency

so uh so for example in in our self-disclosed we have joint accounts um in in our marriage okay and I think naively when I first started this work with couple everybody has a joint account who's in a relationship right totally normal actually totally not normal and um not only that uh a lot of couples I've I've noticed have two different accounts um checkings and savings and um there's no talk about it there's no access to it

there's no knowledge so the other partner is kind of blind to this person Financial practices their savings or lack thereof of savings their spending habits so they're walking into a lifelong commitment um with someone who they are not 100% clear what kind of financial decisions they make right um so that has been very enlightening in our our discussions yeah and that's you know what though I have to give kudos to those couples that actually go and

get this therapy because many couples don't and we always are trying to wonder why especially as therapists or you know it's like why is it one out of two marriages fail right and it is you come in with rosecolor I I know I've been with my man for 29 years you know 30 alt together 30 alt together that is and it was just like oh my night is shining armor you know you know and then all

of a sudden boom right real life happens yeah like two years in you're just like what just happened okay I'm out no but thank God for therapy thank God for therapy and thank god well and it was my faith too that kept me like not giving up but that's the thing like nowadays it's like super easy to give up and that's what I you know this is why I have this podcast cuz I'm trying to encourage

the human that's listening like okay no there's tools and I know like I don't have the money well you're gonna pay either way either way you're GNA pay you're going we we all value something yeah you know and and where our where our heart is our value is our pocket is so we're going to spend the money somewhere yeah and divorce is really expensive really those lawyers and mediators and and listen if you have children let

me just tell you that the the pain and suffering these children cuz you know I was an adolescent therapist for 20 years anyway we see it see it on on so many different angles right as as therapists we we see clients who are walking through a divorce we see the children we see the teenagers who are navigating um this space of going in between their parents' homes and so forth and we know life happens um and

we know challenges challenges happen in in life but again uh couples therapy couples counseling premarital counseling these are all tools and resources to help you be equipped and you know give your relationship your family uh the best shot and the best tools yes um to handle really delicate situations right in a non-judgmental space because that's what I've noticed too is like couples oh no we got this or all I need is my pastor or yeah or

you you see what I mean or let me go to my parents or or let's go to my our uncle or our aunt and I I I understand the perspective depending on the culture too right this is cultural um that we we bring all of our you know issues as a couple or as a family to the elders or to you know um to our pastor you know or to our Bishop so depending on the culture

too um or we don't share anything outside this home we don't talk about what's happening outside the home I I'm of Haitian descent so I'm of a Caribbean descent and it's very common and I find it with um my clients and my couples that hey outside of our home outside of our family we don't talk about what's going on oh no yeah oh no yeah that would that would be embarrassing to the family right that would

be shaming you know to share with others that were experiencing challenges and so you know being able to understand that and be very empathetic with my couples um and I I lead with that I say hey you know I'm I'm not here for individual agendas I'm here for the Rel so the relationship is my Cent and I really make to drive that point especially for the men who will come in already guarded yes they don't want

to be there yes right especially if they're coming from our C like the Caribbean culture or another culture like that because that's you know like uhuh I'm the man I have to have it all under control man right right and so I come in knowing that and honestly it's without fail every almost I want to say say almost every couple that I've encountered um the men have a lot to say yeah men have a lot to

say wow men have a lot to say about the challenges in their relationships and it's what you said creating that safe space that non-judgmental space that they can open up finally right and have someone listen to what they've been facing right yeah okay so with the symbus so fin finances what would be number two that you have seen simus also does a really good job with helping you to understand your marriage momentum so marriage momentum is

helping us to kind of see okay where is this person at are they are they vacillating between whether they're not quite ready for marriage right or is this someone who's really committed um is this someone who is going to leave whenever there's challenges so the assessment based on how you answer the questions right that's any of these assessments will also now give you your marriage momentum okay so that is also a really good talking point too

to see okay when this person is faced with these kind of challenges are they going to run are they already you know unsure about commitment or this is someone who they are committed to this marriage no matter what so I love that about the assessment it provides that also so it helps a lot you know yes if you're an avoidant or an anxious attachment right all right so now that we got the simus and if you

want to know more I'm sure at the end I'm sure she's going to tell us where to find her and stuff like that but I would like to know now I want you to be able to share your journey and experiences with PCOS and navigating diet culture right particularly in the context of mental health and wellbe so for I I did mention it briefly what PCOS is but I would like to talk a little bit more

about that and navigating the diet culture and everything that that relates to that absolutely yeah I me I'm I am an open book when it comes to PCOS um yes as you shared and and I shared this also on my um YouTube channel uh the rich couch just navigating diet culture because you know let's break down diet culture diet culture is this obsess obsession with smaller bodies and a quick way to get there let me just

hide mine a quick way oh not quick I was born like Quick Fix to get to a smaller body which the Western culture is oftentimes obsessed with right so how does that tie to PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome is probably one of it's a it's a hormon hormonal imbalance um issue that um many women face um and it's one of the most common reasons for infertility yeah or um women who are facing inconsistent menro periods okay and

so the criteria for polycystic ovarian syndrome one of the symptoms is uh excessive weight gain very quickly too wow so um you're dealing with that you're also dealing with um heroism which is um because of the elevated Androgen levels which is the uh testosterone it's men and women both have testosterone but uh for women with PCOS it is extremely high so testosterone the the testosterone which is the Androgen hormone so um so for us it's the

excessive weight gain we also deal with um which more which is more of a cosmetic issue but still it can be it's a shot at your self-image uh increase of facial hair um some women I don't have this sympt but some PCOS women deal with hair loss um like balding right here in their head um and so and we also deal with insulin resistance did you say insulin insulin resistance so some doctors will will describe PCOS

women as uh diabetes of the ovaries wow yes because our bodies have a really hard time processing insulin so for example right now I am cons because of my A1C levels I'm considered pre-diabetic oh wow so PC women we have just a a a bunch of different hormonal yeah so many just a list of different hormonal challenges that we're facing and anyone who's insulin resistant uh you can't eat everything right you can't eat everything you do

like a diabetic like a diabetic right a diabetic has to change their their their diet whole lifestyle their whole lifestyle has to change right once you you've been diagnosed um so with PCOS it's very similar you have to now have a lifestyle change in what you eat so in every person's medical history looks a little different so I'm not saying I'm a medical doctor I'm not a medical doctor right I'm just sharing from my experience um

of working with Specialists and nutritionists and when I work with a nutritionist that's when I really learned the importance of having a high protein diet and um being able to have supplements making sure I'm staying hydrated making sure I have vitamin D making sure you know all my diet is including nutrition which is different from diet culture because diet culture does not teach you nutrition no right not many cultures teach you nutrition honestly Even in our

our mental I mean there's not true did you learn that in school about how important nutrition is for the brain absolutely not no no you don't learn any of this stuff until you go through your own stuff it the same for me right yeah that's why yeah yeah so it's I and I love you know the the holistic counselor I love what you're doing because um for a a young woman with PCOS um I was in

my late 20s when you were diagnosed when I was diagnosed I was in my late 20s and and I hear it that it's earlier and earlier it's like this is what I'm I'm gathering in their 20s is PCOS in the 30s is hashimotos or Graves disease M that's interesting yeah and all has to do with the thyroid yeah that's soes for us females so it's and especially after you have a child something shifts and changes and

I know I had issues but we we're not going to go into that we'll go for you yeah so because PCOS I don't know much about I don't know many I I do know there's many young 20-year-olds that like that's the main cause right that's the main cause especially W blown away you know it's interesting because I I've always dealed with dealt with um inconsistent um periods or it's called einor I mean you say this wrong

right the medical term of since you were a teenager since I was a teenager since I was maybe 17 18 but the um OB that I was going to at the time was not concerned about it he was like here you go this is birth control and more and more I talked to other women same experience because we were young we weren't looking to have a baby and that here's bir control um when you're ready to

have a baby get off yeah get off the birth control however there's so many women post birth control they have all these symptoms you know weight gain they have health issues happening and so and so they're really concerned like my body is wacky whoa oh yeah nothing makes sense you know like I have mood swings I'm not feeling good you just know something wrong you know something is off something's not quite and many doctors I hate

to say they Gaslight you or they don't understand the completeness of the female yeah I don't know you know what I you know what I mean cuz we're so unique yeah yeah you know I it sounds like the same pattern that I went through 17 they put me on birth control because I had endometriosis I was bleeding like a stuck pick I'm sorry I know that sounds gross but no I mean this is these are the

women's issues that we do right that's right and that's what talk about that and you know I I appreciate these conversations because it can be very isolating yes it you know all of my everyone was regular and I was like yeah what's wrong with you what's wrong with me what's wrong with my body that's where it becomes the mental situation yes absolutely right your body you're not feeling well and then you're so it's like what what

is and you're young yeah and you're a young person that's the thing and I and I'm and I've shared this before and I will say it again I highly highly um recommend young women if you're not getting the answers that you need if you feel like you're being dismissed if you feel like you're being GID by a medical professional listen there's a lot of people that went to medical school okay and so therefore um there are

so many specialists there are so many providers if you need to switch make the switch Yeah it's okay make the switch and that's what I did I made the switch and I love the OB that I go to now and she was the one that started educating me she said no no no honey even if you don't want to have kids right now PCOS is something to be concerned about because of the lifestyle changes you need

to take and because of your risk your increased chance of diabetes anxiety depression I mean the list goes on with all of the different challenges women with PCOS have and so she was really educating me and and encouraging me to start making the lifestyle changes now to have a better quality of life okay that's good this is where I try to get the audience to understand because we have diagnosed like anxiety and depression right it is

a diagnosis I get it DSM I get it but we have to understand these are symptoms yes right and so when you have these symptoms we have to also understand we're a holistic being our mind our body and our spirit are all together and so with PCOS if it has to do with the hormones of course it's going to have the anxiety and that depression and I'm thinking like what would you say to a woman right

now that was just diagnosed with PCOS that's oh I love that question um first of all I would say I would validate all of your challenges that you've probably been suffering with in silence I would just that's my first thing you know everything that you've been asking yourself or you know second guessing yourself all of it's valid two seek support you need a community of support and that support system if you're a PCOS wife if you're

married um I would encourage you to seek support from your spouse which is which will look different from your friends um but again seeking support from your spouse is important having friends who get it the girls that get it get it I love that saying right now the girls that get it get it um there are friends who will understand you know there are friends who've reached out to me and they don't have PCS but they

have in metriosis they have AO fibroids they have autoimmune and so very similar challenges um so again so you don't feel so isolated okay and then finding Health Care a healthc care team right it is a team that's what something you a team you need a healthcare team that will work with you and so what does that team look like so you're OBGYN you're an endocrinologist so I see an endocrinologist a specialist who has years of

time and research with women with PCOS who've been trying to conceive successfully um I've worked I have a primary care physician you have to make sure you get your BL blood work done yeah um every 6 months if possible um I just did mine so woohoo that's done um a health coach okay so someone that's you know um maybe they're a personal trainer or they're someone that's helping you uh navigate a new nutrition plan a nutritionist

as well that will tell you hey these are the foods to go shopping for these are the foods to not to stay away from and it's accountability too because I realized when I had my own experience with my own hormonal issues and now with s um you need that team for accountability because you know what happens it's just like anybody in our field that okay I feel great so now I need to stop taking everything and

stop doing everything and then all of a sudden you start you know plummeting and then you're realizing like what happened months later you're what's wrong with me and so you stopped doing the good things that helped you and so I know like it it's gets frustrating and that might be where the depression or the anxiety like oh my gosh is this going to be the rest of my life is this going to be the rest of

my life yeah yeah because you start now you start thinking like oh my goodness I'm pre-diabetic my dad's type 2 diabetes grandmother type 2 diabetes aunts type two diabetes so so now you're looking at the trend of where your life is going right but doesn't mean you got to go there you don't have to go there that's why that healthc care team that's why that support system is so necessary um and crucial to your health your

Wellness um spiritual support you know have a group of women from my church who are really supportive and they pray for me and they encourage me and they send me um encouraging words and you know they give me a very free safe space to talk about some of these issues without feeling judged right so after validating you I would really encourage you to find that support system to build that and you you have in a situation

women with PCO or any type of hormonal issue you feel so out of control yeah in your life and this is something I talked to individual clients about um and that can cause anxiety I have no control over my hormones like I can't wake up and tell you know this hormone to do that and that one I can't do that girl wait till you get to menopause I'm not I'm not hoping that on you right now

but let me tell you I just stepped into it last year and I'm like what the what is this like Lord you know we're going to have conversations with Eve yes listen I have a list of questions girl um but but I will say that through all those challenges this is where you control you can you control who's a part of your circle of support you control you know the health care professional that you go and

see you know you control who is you know managing her care right and always get a second opinion my is my opinion there's a lot of people who went to medal school school so yeah but it's just understood because not all people that went to medical school um have an understanding of functional integrative um medicine that's true that is true so reading reading the BIOS right for those of us who have to you have to use

Insurance um and I know there are functional practitioners who don't take insurance but for the most part even like the clients we see they they are looking for someone who's on their the list of providers so reading their bios like taking time and asking the questions so did you do you have like like say someone's like okay I have this you know what questions should they ask their provider do you know like of what to like

how do you advocate for yourself with this yes I think that is one of my huge takeaways becoming my own health care Advocate um I asked question about research if my for example if my physician will say say okay we're going to put you on this medication you know this is a trial for this time period we're going to do this and I'll ask what what is the in the USA I will ask and I and

this is another thing about being your own Advocate take out your laptop open up a notes open up a Google Drive open up something that you can take notes and get questions ready and type out the answers so you always have something to go back to yeah um so I'll ask in the US how many women with pcus were successful on this medication wow you go girl oh yeah my doctors many people don't know how to

do that and that's why listening to us I'm hoping that they'll take their own health care and actually like Advocate even if you feel exhausted because I know when you're not feeling well you're just like I don't care just help me help me and you know what if you're not feeling well that day if you're not feeling up to it if you're not feeling like being your Advocate reschedule the appointment because you need to be at

your best when you're asking those questions um when the doctor says do you have any questions yes doctor I do have questions that needs to always be your response you know whether it's something you think is silly like it's a dumb question no ask them they they are they're supposed to be the expert but you're also an expert too of yourself in your body and how it functions exactly so I think it's really important and even

um I had a coach remind me of this keeping a food journ keeping a food log in a healthy way to help you to to pay attention to certain foods that you don't feel good like your body and you know this right your body will signal to you if you're cramping up after eating that cake or that bread or a slice of pizza like that's not normal that's not okay you know I thought it was for

the longest I was like oh you know you get bloed and and I'm reading and I'm like oh wait that's not normal that's not a normal symptom of after in this culture true okay we're not because think about every commercial what the commercials are either trying to push pharmaceutical down our throat or Burger King Pizza whatever like junk food like just pick up something fast and you're done and in our culture like listen I just know

it isn't it isn't about like how healthy we can eat a lot you know like I did learn a lot from my Latin culture I'm not going to say thank God my my mom grew up on farm right in Colombia and so she she knew and her mom was my grandma was an herbalist so we kind of knew that stuff but listen when you're trying to survive and you come from a different culture and I think

were you born in Haiti or were you born here I was born here my parents um were born in Haiti they were born in Haiti okay so we're second we're second generation here but then we have that kind of background where we were raised with that like they come to this country to have the American dream and here we are with this you know I'm sitting here trying to choose my words wisely because I love my

family but at the same time the trauma that we received from being second generation right and so it's like it's that too it's like understanding it's not just what we're putting in our system through our mouth it is also understanding and dealing with the events that might have happened that got stuck in our cells or in our brain that might mess up our hormones too absolutely because the body stores trauma oh yeah I hear you yeah

so like so listen we we have like five minutes left and I just want to make sure we get like some more but um tell me the challenges in marriage with this because I I get it I understand cuz you know I'm married and when the husband feels okay right right cuz he's healthy he's like a bull my husband's like a bull I'm serious this man if you saw him people have no idea he he's 65

but when they're like he's 65 he looks like he's 50 he looks better than some 50y olds no I've seen your husband I met him at the panel he looks great yeah so you see but but that's because he works outside in the hot sun and he's a construction worker I'm like you will never retire because the second you retire that's it yeah my dad is the same my dad is in his 70s he's a construction

worker and he he's told us several times he's like I'm not retiring I'm going to work until I until God takes him home that's that's and I don't know if that's a construction worker thing right because they're so used to strenuous movement they're used to like working with their hands their their whole body is involved in their work so living a sedentary from that to a sedentary life they're like I'm not playing golf I'm not doing

they can't imagine right to that that being said how is it cuz I know how to teach my husband and so did the medical the professionals and when we went to therapy cuz my husband and I had to go to therapy because he did not the sympathy he has it now but you see where I'm getting at like when you having when you're having some kind of hormonal situation and you're not feeling well and they're like

you're just making an excuse cuz you don't want to do this or like that's true or like come on like you look good are you sure you're not feeling well normal is this a hypochondria you know what okay let's get into this PCOS in marriage it impacts your marriage because again let's start with one of the other symptoms of PCS mood swings right so being able to have this conversation with your husband to help him understand

the symptoms is going to be really important and I had to learn that to welcome him into the education behind what I was going through and I didn't re the light bulb didn't come on until maybe the most recent few years to say hey let's sit down and watch this video on YouTube You Know YouTube is there's so much resources and information um to help someone understand break it down like that show right are you smarter

than a fifth grader you know like it's not something that is so rocket science that your spouse can't understand so first and foremost you might be getting Moody and upset because he just doesn't understand right so break it down in a way so that he can understand and now he can empathize to say oh right that's what that's like that's why you got mood swings that's why you get really hungry even after you just ate or

man like that must be frustrating you know you can't fit into your clothes and you just went shopping six months ago you know now you need to spend another couple hundred or how much is the doctor how much you know helping him to realize this is what is happening this is not what we're choosing like we didn't I didn't want any of this I did not want right I didn't want any of it it's like i'

I'd rather feel good I'd rather feel so good and I'd rather not chew you out right now right you know i' rather not do that and so it's it's there's a level of grace and patience needed on both ends in order so that we can get to the empathy people talk a loud about empathy empathy empathy but it time and it effort get a place where you can be more empathe with youre especially when they are

struggling with a hormonal imbalance such as PCOS yes yes um I would also say it also impacts your marriage uh because of when it comes to just the the family Family Planning you know we we were we were like man we are kid-free and we are happy to be kid-free for the first five years of our marriage and that was always a plan that was always the joke that was always the you know that was always

the talk and we're 12 years in now you know so our plan you know is to our fiveyear plan is totally out the window and so that can sometimes cause you to feel like well I'm going to be in my corner over here dealing with what I'm dealing with and you're going to be over there however I I take my own advice and I remind couples listen challenges come and they have the potential every challenge has

the potential to disconnect you right or it has the potential to connect you wow and so you have to make a decision now you have an opportunity to make a decision will PCOS be a point of disconnection right and we go our separate ways emotionally because you know people first they emotionally check out before they physically actually leave so will PCOS be the place where we um check out emotionally and mentally from one another or will

this be the place where we connect okay where we reconnect and we and grow stronger honestly grow stronger as a couple and we have to make that decision no this is where we connect this is where we connect this is where we grow deeper in our emotional intimacy as a couple yeah emotional in I mean that that's really important so is there any final Message Bible verses or wisdom you like to impart to listen ERS who

have recently received a diagnosis of PCOS or any other hormonal complications to offer them encouragement and hope oh man there are so many um but I would say this I would say you know especially from a faith-based perspective God has not left you you're not forgotten if you just learned about your PCOS diagnosis he will be your strength yes he is the Chief Cornerstone amen he will be your strength he'll be with you in every appointment

yeah and one thing that my therapist because yes we go to therapy too amen oh my God my therapist encouraged me when I was taking you know certain supplements or when I be prescribed a new medication um to write down a scripture verse on that medication wow and I started writing down um I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me on my medications um and and I actually ordered a brand new supplement and that

I did I was not satisfied with the level of vitamin D in it so I turned around I was like I'm going to return this and then I saw a scripture on the back and I was like R fearfully wonderfully made and I'm like I'm 139 and I said I'm keeping this I'm keeping this um supplement because I um I was like oh man I love this because it's something when you are na ating Faith PCOS

and faith in any type of illness or hormonal imbalance it's important your mind will tell you God has left you your mind will tell you you know that you're alone you're alone and you're not you're not and you're not you're not and it's so so important to remember you're not alone that's right that's right well listen I know we could go on and on we absolutely could but uh but we got to go yeah we have

to go I we just got a glimpse on this um where can the audience find you yes so if you are looking to um just stay connected to my PCOS Journey as a therapist and as a wife you can follow me at the rich couch on YouTube okay or um on Instagram richly Deb okay and if you want to schedule appointments yeah U for premarital counseling you can email me at Deborah therapy.com okay Deborah at therapy

terce like a street.com okay I'll put everything in the show notes yes perfect you know well de thank you so much for joining me thank you for having me oh my goodness and maybe we'll bring you back at another episode to go on with the journey and see what else that you find maybe some resources or something like that or maybe do you have anything on your website uh that has PCOS like resources yet I don't

okay well I just challenged you girl yes you did you did just challenge me thank you I'm up for the challenge you go but it's good to know that you understand this journey because I know like my therapist she's autoimmune counselor and that's what she says she like that's one of her niches so like if you're listening and you're needing someone that understands that especially you know you just got diagnosed like yeah call her and let

her become your therapist and help you guide this this this it's not a quick fix and that's the frustrating part I know for me wanted to be better in 2 weeks and you have to figure out like the balancing of the supplements and the medication and what to do I mean I feel okay now I mean I don't feel okay now because I just got sick from being in Spain but but usually when I'm good I'm

pretty good now even though I have these situations and you will get there de like right now like you know what I mean and and you and it's just the hard work right because we live in a society that we want quick and easy and it isn't nothing is and and everything good is hard if you think about it right like a good marriage it's hard work it's hard work it a good anything a good job

you have to work hard at it so why not work hard on yourself yep all right thanks for joining me thank you for having me thank you thank you so much all right everybody just remember to trust in the Lord guard your heart and renew your mine bye bye and now for the disclaimer to make sure you understand that you are responsible for you the content provided on the holistic counselor podcast is for entertainment and informational

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