Breaking the Silence: Mental Health, Culture, and Healing in the Haitian Community

Hello there, fearfully and wonderfully made human. I'm your host, Diana S. Bryce, licensed mental health counselor, holistic Christian therapist, and fellow jourier through the valleys and victories of healing. Today's episode was born out of a real moment of connection. A couple of months ago, I met today's guests at a South Florida clinical collective networking event.

We started talking about stigma in minority cultures, specifically within the Haitian community, and I thought this conversation belongs on the podcast. So, here we are. Joining me today is Austin Celeston Jr. LMHC LMFT EMDR trained DBT informed and a qualified supervisor. Born and raised in Miami, Florida, Austin brings nearly 17 years of clinical experience to the table.

He earned his bachelor's in psychology from Florida&M University and his mers in mental health counseling and marriage and family therapy from Barry University. From trauma work, including complex PTSD to substance use, chronic mental illness and relational healing, Austin has done it all. He now runs Insight 180 Counseling where he works with children, adults, and families in his private practice.

And just to keep things beautifully balanced, he's also a sci-fi lover who uses reading and storytelling as tools to foster creativity and connection in therapy. Today's episode is titled Breaking the Silence: Mental Health, Culture, and Healing in the Haitian Community. We're going to unpack everything from strict but loving parenting to spiritual influences, collective trauma, and how therapists can offer culturally competent care.

Whether you're a therapist, a member of the Haitian community, or someone who's just trying to understand how culture and mental health intersect, this one is rich, real, and restorative. So, Austin, thank you for being on the show. Oh, thank you for that wonderful introduction, Diana.

Thank you. My pleasure. So, tell us about yourself, who you are, what led you to become a therapist, and what fuels your passion for this work. I mean, there's a funny story to what led me to become a therapist. Um, I didn't know what to do.

Oh, yeah. I that comes from background growing up. So, I grew up in Miami, obviously, like you said, and part of that journey was obviously education, right? Education was paramount for my family and Austin wasn't the best student. But I got to college and my parents wanted a doctor and so I majored in bio premed and it kicked my butt.

It really did. I can imagine. It really did. It really did. Not not to the sense of like D's and Fs, but more like B's and C's. And I realized it wasn't something I was passionate for. And around sophomore year, I wanted to change my major.

And I had a friend who said, "Well, you have all the prerequisites for psychology. You might as well just change your major to psychology." It's like psychology really? So, this is a 21-year-old, you know, just kind of floundering at at 48. What your parents think, Austin?

Because to me, I know like working with minority cultures like they come from a different Is your parents from from Haiti? My parents are from Haiti. Yeah. Okay. So, you're second generation here in America. I mean, you were born here. I was born here.

First generation here. Yeah. like me. Okay. And so I know like the pressure they came and they're working hard. Were they, you know, were they working as doctors and lawyers and stuff like that here in They're they're blueco collar. Blueco collar. My father worked at town blue Hilton as a bartender and my mother's a certified nursing assistant.

So very blue collar. We grew up in the inner city of Miami. Uh around 8th grade we moved to North Miami which is a suburb north of Miami. Um, and upon getting to college, so to answer your question directly, they weren't happy. No, they weren't.

I know. Still too, I mean, I'm I'm in my 50s and she never like was she wanted me to go into like a 9 to5 40hour at least something with great benefits and and you know, but I know that other minorities it comes in it's like doctor or lawyer, you're going to be one of those because and I get it, right?

I get it. Like we that's like the highpaying prestigious kind of work. It's what's regarded, you know. So in our culture, in Haitian community, it is still that. I mean, till this day, I meet second and third generation Haitians uh to the Americas.

And it's still doctor and lawyer. And so my mom, I mean, funny story, freshman year, I told my mom I was going to major in English. So you mentioned sci-fi. I I write stories. I write short stories middle school, high school. Oh, I love that.

I wanted to be a writer and my and I told my mom I'm going to major in uh English and freshman year before she walked out, left me in a dorm room. She goes, "What are you going to do with an English degree?

I didn't send you here to major in English." And so that kind of crushed me. And so I said, "All right, fine, Mom. I'll go into biology." And and so because I had the prerequisites and I took my first biology course that summer of 200 Yeah.

2000 Austin. Yeah. Can you hear me? Something just happened with the Hello. I'm still I can't hear you. Can you hear me? Okay, now I can hear you again. Oh, sorry. Sorry. You cut off. Ah, sorry about that. So, no. What? I I took my first psychology class.

It was basically intro to psychology summer of 2000 and I loved it. Yeah. I just literally fell in love with the history. Uh fell fell in love with what the professors were telling me and I just stayed there, you know. I just stayed there.

Funny enough, with that major, you need a minor. So, I minored in anthropology just to like Really? Yeah. And I And I That's cool. And I always liked the study of culture and the study of people. And so I majored in psychology. I finished off majoring in psychology, minored in anthropology.

Um, it took me two years to tell my parents. And so it took me two years to tell my parents. And I remember I came home for the summer for about a week. Yeah. Right before graduation and I sat there. I said, "Mom, Dad, I got something to tell you."

I changed my major from biology to psychology. And my dad got up from the table, walked to his room, and slammed the door. Yeah. And so my mom, this is something that I hear like, let's talk about that a little bit because now we're we're grown.

Like, you know, we're grown. We've come through it. But you have a lot of young people, I bet you, that you work with that that have that kind of fear like cuz that's a fear. Like even when you said that, like it took me two years to to have this conversation.

Mhm. Can you recall back in the day how you were feeling and what was going on in your system? Everybody knew except my sister and my parents. So, everybody knew. And you know, when I would come home for the summer, go to church, my friends in church would be like, uhoh, what are you going to do?

I was like, I don't know, bro. I don't know. There was a fear. I'll be honest with you. I mean, fear to the level of not anxiety, but fear. Yeah. act in a way, right? Is it is it Let's describe it a little.

It was worse than that. No, no, no. It was fear of like like they're going to cut my head off type of fear. It's been And again, am I being dramatic? Probably. But I remember a 20 21 year old kid just being a disappointment.

Yeah. Or feeling like a disappointment.

Exactly. and not having not living up to that expectation which is a lot of pressure in the community right the the your parents immigrate to the US they barely speak the language they're working to learn the language and they are encouraging school school yes you know uh so our life and I'm an 80s baby so our life included church school and home that's it you know you went to church went to school and you came And that was your life seven days a week.

And so the aspirations of your parents who you see you recognize that early age. You know, my dad worked nights. Wow. And so you he'd leave the house at 3:00 in the afternoon as I would come home from elementary school. 3 to 11, I bet.

Was it 3 to 11? No, 3 to 3 to 3. He worked twelves. Yeah. Yeah, he worked twelves because he worked at a bar. And so you he worked at a hotel and so he would catch the bus, go to Miami Beach, and then work from like, let's say, 3 to 3:00 a.m., come home by 5:00 cuz he's getting a ride or waiting for the bus to take him home.

Wow. Which the bus starts running at 5:00 in the morning. So sometimes I'm going to elementary school, my dad's coming in the house. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And my mom worked 3 to 11, so she was a nursing assistant. And so they want, you know, they're they're informing you of like this is our life.

You know, we're I mean, I wouldn't say we were poor, but we grew up in the inner city and so um twobedroom, one two bath two-bedroom, one bath apartment and so with three kids and so yeah, you're kind of, you know, not living in the best homes and they wanted more and so of course that's why they come here, right?

This why they come here for the American dream. The American dream. Exactly. So that pressure Yeah. for two years, I just couldn't tell them. No. Come home for Thanksgiving. How's school? Good. Yeah. Come home for Christmas. How's school? And like I said, when I told them it, I would tell my friends, my friends like, "You got to tell them.

You got to tell them." And these are Haitian-American kids, too, as well. So, they understood the pressure. They understood the dynamic. And I told them, and my dad didn't say a word. He got up, went to his I was in the dining room, got I could still see it today.

Got up, went to the dining room, slammed the door, didn't say a word. Yeah. My mom said, "We're disappointed. We're upset. Forgive your father for doing that." And she was empathetic enough, but she was also upset. And that was it. Like kind of glad you didn't get a beatdown because that's what I hear at times.

Let me tell you, working in the alter the school system, the beatd downs are real. Like it's like Yeah. But it was an emotional beatd down for I mean I it lingered for I was glad I told them but it did linger. Yeah.

If I remember well for like a good week that sense of disappointment. Yeah. That sense of like I don't want to say shame but guilt for sure. There was a lot lot of guilt there. Yeah. What do you think that is though?

Because to me like after working through my own system and understanding right do you what do you think that you know the the parents is it the lack of understanding education not dealing with their own traumatic influ because listen a lot of the cultures that come to come to this country for the American dream they are carrying some heavy heavy burden and trauma and then they kind of pass it on to the next generation without knowing

and I'm not going to blame you know it's like how do we hold space for ourselves to clear out that stuff so we don't pass it up, you know, to the next generation and and still have a relationship with the the family unit.

Like, how do you b how did you balance that? Like, what work did you do for yourself in order to to stop the the the stigma or stop the intergenerational stuff with you? It wasn't, I'd be honest with you, in my early 20s, it wasn't the healthiest work.

It was more of a rejection in my early 20s. Wow. It was like, f them, you know, in my early 20s, like you're talking 22, 27, it's like, f them. And it was more of an insensit. It was more of a rebellious type of nature.

If I remember of that early, that kid from 20 years ago, it was more like this is my life. I'm gonna lead it my way. Yeah. Um but again, you know, when I learn about family therapy, you're somewhat becoming kind of the cut off.

You're like kind of like, I don't care. Leave me alone. I'm going to do what I want to do. And so, you're slowly kind of cutting off from the family. You're still connected, but you're kind of cutting off. And it took me until like my late mid late 20s, early 20s, like, whoa, what are you doing?

Obviously, that's when I became a counselor. I was like, what are you doing? I was like, what are you doing? we can't do this. And so you you kind of uh emotionally reconnect to the family of origin. But it was very difficult because I think what you see um my mother is the storyteller and so you get the traumatic story.

She grew up in Haiti during the 50s and she was born in 51. So if she saw Duval, she saw all that. And so wow, you get a lot of those stories as a kid because she's trying to pass on the culture. And part of the culture obviously is you get the funny stories, you get the the lore stories, you get the Haitian Revolution stories, but you also get the, hey, I grew up suffering.

I grew up hard. I grew up with no parents. I grew up I came to this country so you can have a better life. You get also those stories as like a six-year-old. You're like, "Huh?" Yes. Exactly. You have no idea. You have no idea.

Why are you crying? You have no You have no reason to cry. You have no reason to cry. You're here in this country. You have no idea what sadness or trauma is. So, wow. And they get those stories.

And so with and then again there were great stories too because I think a lot of my pride comes from those stories cuz a lot of you know my mother you would tell us great stories of the Haitian Revolution right just amazing like she was like she should have been an actress cuz she's like role playing she's like doing everything she's standing up charge like she was a great storyteller and you're like me and my brother

would get all these stories it was our way to get out of school by the way cuz she would come home at 11 and like let's have mommy tell us some stories And I remember me and my brother, that was our ploy.

We had our mom one night, I remember this vividly, we had her telling, she got home at 11:30. She kept us up to like four telling the stories. Telling stories. Just Have you written them down? No, we're going to I'm going to record her.

I I want to record her if she can still remember. But again, you're like 8 years old now.

You're like But that's a beautiful memoir, Austin. it culture of of I mean listen you have a lot to offer because it is rare not rare I mean I I know probably two handfuls may not even of men of educated educated Haitian psychotherapists you know and that's to me like is so needed especially nowadays I mean I had client after client that were Haitian males and I try and I learned about the culture because of them but to me I would love to say, "Hey, listen.

Here's Austin." And and those stories, you know, for for Haitians obviously build resilience. They build a sense of pride, um a sense of courage, you know, you know, for us it's like we're the first, right? And whatever is happening now, we're the first.

We're the first successful slaver.

So whatever you want to say about us, whatever, we're the first. and and hearing those stories as a kid in the especially in the 80s when you would get bullied when you would get called all types of names uh whatever right because I had those stories in my background wow and so um and so when you get all that you you kind of you do feel at an early age you're standing on giants right because again

what do you know about being black in America I was a slave that's it that's what you get in school that's what you get in the media Um, and so when you get that perspective from your parents, and I think we are the most important, I have two children of myself and we are the most important teacher to our kids.

When you get that perspective, you know, you don't feel that diminished anymore. And so, and so that going back to our initial conversation about, you know, that puts a lot of pressure on you. That put a lot of pressure on me to succeed and to quote unquote live that American dream.

And the only way you can live that American dream in America then is be a lawyer, be a doctor. And so when you say you're going to be a therapist or a psychologist, you're like, "What's that? I don't know what that is." How'd you explain that?

Because I know for most of my career or even going to school of this like I know because I I was raised by a single immigrant mom, right? And so it wasn't a very understanding, nurturing kind of caring like, "Oh, okay." No. Oh, no.

You work with the crazy. I'm like, "No, no, mom." Like, there was no empathy there like at all. And to me though, it was lack of education and understanding or fear. Like, wait, you're going to therapy? What did I do wrong? So, tell me about the stigma in your culture about the word therapy.

Well, there's still a very I mean I think around that time um my younger brother passed away. My brother passed away in 2000. And so, you know, you go to school, start psychology classes and you come home and the house is depressed, right?

There's my dad, my mom, and my little sister. And the house is depressed. And you're like, "Mom, I think you need to go to therapy." What's that? I'm not crazy. Right. Uh and so again, the support system becomes the church, right? The support system is naturally for our community to church, whatever the church may be, Protestant, Catholic, 7th Day Adventist.

That becomes a support system. And so you you're I tried to encourage her, at least go talk to a pastor. At least go talk to brother such and such, sister such and such because mom, you're depressed. I'm not depressed. you know, sister, my little sister's depressed.

She's not depressed. She's fine, you know. All right. And so, you know, how do you explain it? Because it's only I'm the I'm the person that crazy people go see. Like you said, I'm the person that crazy people go see. And so, which is not true.

Anyone listening, we do that. We know too. And I And so the the the stigma is prevalent for sure. It's still there. Uh but it's not there in just my community. is there in a lot of uh marginalized and communities of color. You know, it's still there.

And so, how do I explain? Um I think now there's a higher level of education. I started my career working with the community. Um so, I worked a lot of community mental health for the first five years of my career. So, I was working with a lot of people that looked like me and you, right, in the inner city.

Um I spoke okay creole. You know, I think my creole is good to great. Some people So, do you understand it completely? Like if somebody was speaking Creole, you would totally pick up exact. Okay, good. Good to know. I totally make it up.

I'll go make it up. I'll go. Yeah. Do you do therapy in Creole, though? I used to, like I said, like those first five years was going into the homes. I was doing college visits, so it would be working with mom and dad who whose language barriers were very prevalent.

And so, I would have to go there And funny enough, I remember one mom picked up my accent. She's like, "Yeah, you're from the north." Like, "Hajie, so regionally, she was able to pick up my accent cuz my both my parents are from the both my parents are from the north."

And so there's certain words and certain dialectical changes in Creole. And she was like, "Yeah, you're from the north." And she was from the south. She was like, "You're from the north." Like, "Yeah, my parents are from the north."

Uh, and so yeah, I would speak Creole. uh a lot of times you're doing a lot of translations because a lot of times work with these parents with the school so they're speaking to the school counselor to the principal uh and so even then it felt like they were getting in trouble right because they're here's this person to work with your bad child maybe the bad child had ADHD maybe the bad child wasn't completing homework maybe

the bad child and again I'm using bad because that's how the school system described It it got me so frustrated working in the school system.

I'm like, no. Yeah. And so you become kind of the bad guy. And again, a lot of a lot of people's entryway to therapy is typically from what? Community mental health or DCF. Yes. Or the school saying you your kid needs therapy. A lot of people, especially minorities, that's kind of their first entryway.

Yes. And so they don't trust they they double down and then they really trust it. Yeah, they really don't trust you. And so a lot of my clients were Haitian clients. And so at least speak the language, kind of break the ice, smile, talk about your family, talk about where you're from, kind of and then kind of educate.

I'm not here to get you in trouble. I'm not going to I'm here to help you and your family, your kid. And so that was the first five years of my career. And it's easier to explain it to your loved ones that that's what you do.

You know, I'm helping us get better. And so mom was like, "Oh, okay. That's a good job. How much you get paid? It's like not much. Not much, Mom. Come. Sorry. It's not the doctor and the lawyer. Not much. Actually, doctors and lawyers come and see us now.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, man. So, listen. Trauma runs through Hades history. Right. From colonialism to political instability to natural disasters. How do these collective traumas show up in therapy? And what's the path to healing? You think?

I I I was I was a clinician during an earthquake and so so can you like for anyone listening now because people forget quickly because the next news so China cuz that was humongous 2010 yeah 2010 earthquake occurred devastated Porter Prince uh and a lot of people relocated and it I forget the numbers but we're talking hundreds of thousands of people yeah one of the biggest one of the biggest natural out there you you know, humanitarian crisis, you had, you know, malaria, you had a lot of stuff, a lot of bad stuff happened.

Um, the community came together. I remember, you know, my church was a Haitian church in Miami. My old church was a Haitian church in Miami. And so, clothes, donations, and so you're just like loading up, you know, you're doing all the thing you can.

And, you know, working with, you know, people that were kind of displaced. every now and then you you'll get that kid that survived the earthquake, you know, and you know, he's only speaks Creole, so you're speaking to him about that. And so, how do you communicate to someone, you know, um that experienced such a thing?

And again, it's it's again, remember I told you those stories that my mom told me. I mean, yeah, the Haitian Revolution. Yeah. But, you know, she had to explain what slavery was to a 5-year-old. Um she had to explain what why you know uh the revolution occurred.

You know what they would do. She was like yeah they would put a she was describing quartering to me at at at 5 years old. Yeah. They would put a horse they put a horse tie your hands here. Tie your hands here. Oh that kind of quartering.

Oh no. Yes. So again that those you become indoctrinated with kind of the suffering of like and then again the media didn't help. And so to answer your question directly, I think as an Asian-American therapist, you relate you. It's they they know you know the struggle.

They know you're not blind to it. They know you understand it. And you can even communicate it. You even have the historical background to communicate it because hey, my mom told me those stories. Um hey u I have cousins that experienced the earthquake.

I have cousins that were in Haiti during the earthquake. have cousins that are still there. Um, so you're able to kind of communicate that to them and and I think the biggest thing is relational to be honest with you in that particular dynamic.

It's like that's when the cultural um commonality helps like being able to like speak to somebody who really understand. We we we work as clinicians to understand our clients empathically, but then of course when there's a cultural or racial connection, it's a lot deeper.

And I'll be honest with you, I get clients, some clients come to me just because of my last name. They're like, "I think that's a Haitian last name. I'm going to call him up." You know, are you Haitian? Yes. Okay, good. That's one of the reasons why I called you.

Yeah. It's not about being racist, though, because I know some people are like, "Well, why? I'm I can do I I study MDR. I study this, this, this, and that. So, I don't understand. I I can help them, too." And I'm like, "Yeah, you can."

But sometimes it is very like to me I would ra I mean like my therap because I go to therapy and my therapist is Jamaican you know but I love that she understands the cultural background of things and being you know and it's important because like what would you say to a clinic to clinicians like saying that they're starting off because you're a qualified supervisor so am I and how do you help your interns become more culturally competent without making them feel guilt and shame for being white.

I'm just going to say it. You know what I mean? Like, how do you balance that? It's a good question. It's a good question. I think uh being a supervisor either in a facility or in an institution or right now private practice is to help them understand.

I mean, for those of them, they grew up here anyway. So, it's a good awareness of like what are you aware of of the people around you first, your friends.

I'm not again I'm not asking you what your friends look like but I'm asking you about your colleagues about the languages you hear about the stories you are aware of uh are you really aware of there's a part of the world you know 90 miles away 60 miles away that don't look like you that don't speak like you that have different perspectives and you and you're trying to open up young clinicians sometimes older clinicians to that idea that you know the world doesn't revolve around your euroentric thinking.

Right. That's right. And so we have to be able to be curious. You know I talked about you know my I love history and so I always try to get you know supervises to think about right what's the history of this person and what is it based on and what what shapes it what what traumas are in it you know to kind of get an un a deeper understanding of that individual.

Uh, so cultural competency, is it easier because we're in South Florida? Not necessarily. Now, you don't necessarily. I think sometimes, you know, depending on the only if, like, again, if you only work with a certain population, you might not be as culturally competent as you think you are.

True. Yeah. Right. And so and so um I'm sure when we go to our networking events you're like I was like the only one. And so uh and wait it's not only that you're the only black it's it's you're a black male. There's not many males in our in our black male.

There's not you know and that I love like when I I'm like no we need more of everybody. Yeah man. And so, you know, we I I try to at least ground them in that because being a qual to me, qualified supervised supervision is not just about processing the case, is about processing your ability to do the case.

Exactly. And so, what don't you understand about the client? What research you need to do? What questions should you ask? You know, let's not get so clinical on solving the problem. Let's try to understand the client for who they are. And so, that's the to me that's the art of therapy.

You know, I know that's a cliche term, but that's kind of the art. You know, let's get to know. Actually, I don't think I've hear that often, the art of therapy. Well, then I've stolen it from a friend of mine. I stole it from a book because I always tell them I always tell them you you learn the science.

We go to school, we learn the science and and we learn about DSM. I have to ask you because this is something I know that I when I was in I went to NOVA for my masters and I just that that diagnostical statistical manual that they said is my Bible.

Um you know did you like have push back or or questioned it a lot going wait who wrote it and what why is it like this?

Did you have a little bit of inside of you going hm was this a very uh ethnosentric colonialist uh vibe and that this is what we're having to do you know like what was your thoughts or or you didn't even think about so I well I did only because our professors said that our professors like this is based on eurosentric thought a bunch of white guys wrote this your wait a minute your professor my professors did not say that at all so to It was so different.

Oh, so see how it is like you know you you were able to have a better open mind. Ah and plus this so the school of thought and again I don't want to yeah the school of thought white professor white male professor and said all right this is a euroentric thought you know this won't always work to your clients but I have to teach it to you.

So boom. So that was I want I want that professor on my podcast because that I have never heard that being Yeah. And so that was that was that and so it wasn't and again so pathologizing clients you know coming out of grad school wasn't something that I was taught in my program.

Now it could have been that particular professor and that particular style but it wasn't we learned at DSM but pathizing in a postmodern sense wasn't something it was all about this client's story. It was all about wait a minute that's because you're LMFT.

Yes. Was it an LM? Oh, because maybe that's the Sorry, poss. I got excited there. That might be the difference cuz I was LHC only. You know what I mean? And so that could be So, can I ask you about that? I know this is how my brain goes.

Um, the LMHC, LMFT, did you ever see the, you know, the there's a big I mean, how I had to conceptualize it? Yeah. You know, it's I I wish I prefer looking at myself as an LMFT because I look at the whole picture and sometimes the whole picture isn't a pathology, the whole picture is the whole picture.

So the bird's eye view of not just this client, but their family and where their family comes from. So my historical back, well, not historian, but I love history. That's part of their story. And so that doesn't really include a lot of like, yeah, all right, your uncle was schizophrenic, whatever.

What's going on with you? You know, I know that might play a role genetically and maybe systemically, but like what's going on with you? And so I get the bigger picture being a marriage and family therapist. Um, you know, a lot of my early interventions, I always used to do a genog, even if it was individual therapy.

Do a genog. What's that? Like just for me. explain to the audience what a denog is because we're teaching here. Yes, we're teaching here and so think of it as a family tree. Think of it as a family tree. It's a it's a it's a system where it's an intervention.

I call it an intervention for me where we're getting the family of origin. So where our clients come from uh we use squares and shapes and lines, right? Squares, circles, and lines. Um but you know, I typically go back on a family tree looking at patterns.

So that's the most important thing for me. patterns of communication, patterns of health, career, you know, so I've done I've done genoggrams where uh every male was a lawyer in his family. And so what happens when my client decided not to become a lawyer, wanted to be an artist.

So you get all that transgenerational anxiety and stress, you know, it's like, yeah, every person in my family was a doctor. Every person in my every woman was a nurse. Everybody's had a successful marriage. now I'm going through a divorce or everybody got divorced in my family and now I'm getting a divorce.

I'm just falling in line. Um and so a genog, a good genog will show you that depending on how much work you do with the client and how far you go and their memory. A good genog will see patterns and so and how's that help like the client itself?

Like does you know do you break cycles with that? Do you just now oh okay this is how we're going to shift and change and reframe? So my first job I I I got my maintenance guy to put in a big white board.

It's like and so I have like this imagine this five foot whiteboard right getting put up and you're like I'm the only therapist on a big whiteboard right and I'm just drawing it out for the client typically first or second session and what you get is the aha moment like I never saw and they start connecting the dots and for us and at least for me I'm looking at anxiety right and anxiety is a general term and they're connecting the dots and they're seeing those patterns of communication.

They're seeing how they're continuing the patterns of communication. And again, yes, there are some things that can be traced like if there's mental illness, anxiety, depression, substance abuse. Yeah. Then I'm like, "Oh, yeah, my grand my granddad was an alcoholic. My dad's an alcoholic.

Oh, damn. I'm an alcoholic." Right? So, you get that kind of like that connection. Yeah. And that does help break sometimes the stigma, right? That can help break the stigma. that can help gain a lot of insight because it's not insight to blame on previous generations.

It's just insight to at least understand where you come from. And again, if it's if it's if there's enough time, we're going to go into those historical, you know, cultural backgrounds. And so I, you know, with minority clients, we're going to talk about, you know, okay, when did your parents immigrate to the States?

All right, let's talk about that. Yeah. Can you tell me about the pressures you experienced being first generation American?

Can you talk about the parent the the the traumas associated with your culture, not just Caribbean culture, European culture, South American culture, you know, can you tell me about what it was, you know, in South Florida, Portuguese, you know, South American, you know, so we all have our stories. you know, um, working with a Portuguese client right now, it's like, you know, did you know Graham is just to look at how his grandfather and father treated him?

And so, it's like understanding those dynamics. So, um, systemically, at least for my program, we really emphasized emphasized on the story, on looking at people past their diagnosis. Um, just using the diagnosis as a tool. Not saying we should ignore diagnosis. Of course, we should, but looking it as a tool to at least help them understand.

Yeah. It's like a boundary.

I I try to tell the clients that you're not like okay you have to have well if you have insurance and you're taking insurance of course you have to have a diagnosis but I want it's not because sometimes that's not dangerous but it depends on the person and they get a diagnosis and it's kind of like the noibo effect that doctors will say you got canc or whatever like and now you feel this and then something happens inside your genes and then now you boom.

So, what other modalities do you use with your clients, Austin? Primarily now it's I'm a EMDR therapist. Um, I've been using EMDR close to 10 years now. I got trained in DBT about seven years ago. And so, a lot of emotional regulation skills, distress tolerance skills.

I use a lot of mindfulness, believe it or not, in my practice, trying to get people to just be centered with themselves, grounded with themselves. Um, I still love my couples, you know. So, I'm trained in Gottman, uh, level two. So, let's explain a little bit of all these because like we're we're talking therapies, you know, Yeah, we're talking.

And so, to me, like if someone's listening like just say like someone that's 22 years old, 23, they're looking for a Haitian male therapist and then all a sudden they're like DBT. I mean, I know everybody can research and do Google University, but to me, like to have a therapist actually explain these different modalities and what they do for you is is beneficial.

So, like, let's start with EMDR. I know I've had quite a few EMDR uh specialists here, but go ahead and explain just a little how you use it and like Oh, sure. Absolutely. I get that. Absolutely. I movement decentralization reprocessing. So, EMDR, it's a trauma resolution therapy, right?

It's it's um I use it to help go through the harsh memories, the harsh traumatic incidences. Um the way I utilize it is I try to help the client first ground themselves with safe place with containment exercises to at least at least try to get them stable.

Um and then what we do is I typically do a trauma timeline. You know, I think most therapists, most EMDR therapists do a trauma timeline, like the 10 most things you remember, I know that's how my EMDR um specialists did for me, right?

I go a little bit longer, right? I Yeah. I The way I do it, I I I give them the time. I give them the time to like from 0 to 50, from 0 to 35, like just whatever you consider traumatic. And then from there, we'll pick the 10 most.

Okay? And then we'll use bilateral stimulation. And what that is is the left and right, you know, move your Which one do you use? Do you use the light? Do you use the hands? Do you use both? Or do you are online you just have a thing going back and forth?

I have access to all of them. Most 90% of the clients I work with use I use the light bar. I used to use my arm a lot, but then you know the shoulder starts to hurt. Yeah. You get tired and so I I I invested into a light bar.

Um I typically see resolution from three to five sessions and uh typically I see resolution three to five sessions and we use what's called the sud score subjective units of disturbance. basically how intense or disturbing the that particular incident we're processing and then again I I work anywhere from substance abuse um trauma sexual assault um earthquake natural disasters you know I once had a client he he said I experienced the worst tornado in American history like

okay sure went to Google like whoa the worst tornado in American history like and he survived this tornado in a gymnasiums uh and his entire town was leveled.

Oh, you know, and so, you know, you you I picked up EMDR as a modality to to be honest with you to protect myself, right? Um I started when I was working with children, the last two years I worked with children. You're interested in trauma, right?

Here you go. And like, oh, okay, cool. And so you're listening to Yeah. molestation, abuse. Oh, yeah. Listening to a lot of those trauma stories. And I couldn't I felt I always needed a a modality to help hasten Yeah. the work. But also sometimes it kind of put a barrier between myself and that work.

Especially after you had children, I bet like that.

Absolutely. that shifted every I mean no I mean I had children starting but it was just like yeah there was so much you can vicarious trauma is a real thing for us therapists and compassion fatigue and I think a lot of people don't understand like we hold space for others and it's okay because that is our job that's the service we prov that's our job that's our job you know I tell my clients I'm your garbage

man you know I am your garbage man dump it all here I'll pick it up bag it up throw it out in a dumpster yeah Uh, but I still have to pick it up, bag it up, throw it out in a dumpster.

And you're going to experience it. You're going to experience some of that. Um, you know, and uh, yeah, I've had some really tough cases with children. Yeah. And I I I recognize, okay, there's I need to research something that can a make this job a little bit more effective with trauma and um, and if it does give me some of a buffer.

Yeah. Excellent. Right. because you can only process so much. Um, DBT is dialectical Oh, I'm sorry. You had a question. Yeah. No, no, that's what I was going to go next to. DBT. So, DT dialectical behavioral therapy. Um, marshall enhance therapy. It's it's it's obviously famous working with borderline personality disorder.

Uh, I use it in conjunction with trauma to help my clients ground to give my clients it's basically the quickest way I can describe it. I'm giving you tools on how to regulate your emotions, how to interact better with your peers, your family.

Um, and so DBT, you know, for me, yes, I will work with clients that have traditional borderline personality disorder, but a lot of us can benefit from dialectical behavioral therapy. A lot of us can benefit from those school from those skills, mindfulness every session.

Uh, at least I start every session with a mindfulness exercise. Like do some 10 deep breathing before. Me too. right here. Look. Yes. Right here. Let's go. We're going to take this the three while I sit there with my voice and take that deep breath in.

Yeah. You have to because so many people come into the session with ah the whole week's worth of stuff and we have to ground help them get grounded. This is their time to chill. Ground. Yeah.

So I I want to go into the the spiritual aspect of things really like because to me um you know it I've come across many that it's Christian like you named earlier like the different denomination 7th day Adventist Baptist whatever it is or I've had a few when I was working the alternative schools um where it is voodoo and so they would you know and and the kids the teenagers weren't like they're being raised with grandma

who's believing that and but then the angst and the thing of them going, "Oh my gosh, the devil, the devil, now I'm schizophrenic or whatever and it's Satan."

How do you deal with that, Austin? Like, how do you deal with the spiritual aspect of the culture? And it's not only your culture, it's Caribbean, too. It's Caribbean culture. You you have to reconcile with yourself first, right? So, and I grew up Judeo-Christian. nice.

I am a Christian. But acknowledging that this is part of our culture, acknowledging the the Haitian Revolution started with a voodoo serum, right? So, you got to remember that, right? Um you have to acknowledge that. And so, you have to reconcile that bias with yourself first if you're a Haitian-American therapist.

Um even if you're and again you know part of I'm sure there's customs your parents beliefs your parents do that come from that cultural background you know I'm sure when you go to the Catholic churches there might be stuff you see you know things you experience and so you have to first I think reconcile that for yourself first um address the stigma right address the stigma present you know so Um for instance there's a client whose

closest relative so or worships voodoo and how do I have a relationship with that individual being I'm very Christian and that's a very difficult type of conversation right it's a very difficult conversation that particular individual we just processed it processed the stigma processed you know how to and again spirituality right keep yourself safe ground yourself in your beliefs, ground yourself in your spirituality, ground yourself in your God in order to kind of get past the relationship

or the lack thereof of the relationship with the individual.

I've never specifically worked with anyone that said they solely practice voodoo. Um Wow. Yeah. Right. Never specifically worked with someone that said, "Hey, I only practice voodoo." Uh but I'm sure it would be I've gotten referrals. Interesting enough, I got a referral that it just never came through, right?

What if I'm sorry, but I this is the qu like what if you had say an 18-year-old and and this is why I'm I'm bringing this up because this h actually happened where two students um they were being raised by the older sister in their 20s and it was two students like in their teens working you know and but gr they just came from Haiti and grandma and mom were into the voodoo still in Haiti but

so They were the anxiety that these young girls had because grandma said, "You're not behaving, so we're going to put a spell on you."

And of course, if you're raised thinking this is really happening and so now here I am going, "Oh my goodness." And I'm talking to the principal and going, you know, what do we do with this situation? Because what do you do? Call DCF?

Like, right? Like it's like, but to to me that was kind of religious abuse that was happening to and they could not function because of the situation. and this poor 20some year.

So stuff like this really happens people like so how do you how do you help your clients if they're coming in with maybe they don't believe in this religion but they were raised in that kind of um high control you know what I mean or whatever that belief with fear I mean because that's a scary thing when people don't understand things excuse me it it be because my grandma like I I was raised in with Santaia Right.

That was kind of like the same, you know, Puerto Rican my Puerto Rican grandma. I mean, but there was no chickens being, you know, with blood. I never saw any of that. But still, you're raised in that. You're like, "Oh my goodness." And the anxiety of that, how would how would you process?

Well, I I think I think, you know, again, like I said, reconciling it for myself first. And again, this is just my own understanding is trying to look at any religion as balance. There's going to be good, there's going to be evil in any religion, right?

And I try to show that balance. Even our religion, Christianity, there's we did some bad Christians did some bad bad bad things. Yeah. It's the humans that did those things. It's the humans. Let's let's not forget because there's so much deconstruction out there and there's so many people like you say you're a Christian and right on you know when they don't understand it.

But you're right. It's it's understanding your and and so it's understanding. So once you reconcile it with yourself and then somewhat educating them, I would I probably sit like this. I would probably sit with them, help them communicate the anxiety and then again if if if if it's if they need the support to counteract so to speak what grandma and mom are doing back in Haiti, then what does that support look like?

And so if it is a religious institution, if it is prayer, then again I again you now you're kind of battling the culture so to speak and try to like and and again that's a very dicey predicament in that particular case. Must have been a very tough case because I then have to kind of figure out okay what do they now want to believe?

What do they now want to worship? What do they now want to have you know give their spiritual energy towards? Right? And if if it says and if they go, "Yeah, yeah, okay. I want I don't want this curse to affect me," then again, now I might have to go into the local spiritual leaders in the community and kind of bridge that gap there, right?

Because I have to be a clinician. So, I have to still be a uh a clinician and and part of my job, you know, I guess the the support work that we do or the social work that we do, let's use that term, is like trying to connect them to the community resources that are there to kind of help counterbalance.

And again, now a lot of it's going to be a lot of psycho education with the school staff, a lot of psycho education with the caretaker. Listen, you said an older sister, you know, how to keep them safe. And again, boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, right?

Um, and again, if if if we're looking this as religious trauma, then again, we got to really establish boundaries. You know, again, we're going to have to say, "All right, sister, maybe they shouldn't be talking with these individuals if this is what they believe."

And it's scaring them, right? Um, it's a very, it's also their culture, though. See, it is a complicated kind of situation because that's you you're you're trying to keep them safe. Mhm. And at the same time like this is part of their culture and you know and we don't want to disrespect the culture.

It's it's yeah like that's it's a it's a it's a part of the religion especially in the Caribbean that we haven't really reconciled like we can't you know we live in this either or instead of this both and world right and so I think it's it's it's this is either good or bad and so if what I do is good then this has to be bad and again it's just trying to reconcile that and I know my I know a lot of people are like what is Austin talking Reconciliation doesn't mean I worship both.

It doesn't have to mean that exactly doesn't mean that doesn't that's not what I'm saying here and understanding doesn't mean I have to go worship that either doesn't mean that as well but it is understanding how it's important to our culture how it's important to our customs both aspects of spirituality Christianity voodoo is very important to some aspect of our culture and we just have to really recognize that and reconcile that with ourselves doesn't mean we're going to go worship this or worship that.

I'm not saying one is better over the other, even though we're trained to believe that, right? We're we're we're trained and we can have another conversation about why we're trained to believe that, but it's still very interesting to help um like this particular client, help him at least rec the client I worked with, help him reconcile, all right, your sister worships.

Okay, cool. Right. What does that mean to you? What does that mean to you? And how do you balance that with your own Christian beliefs and having a relationship? Right? It's it's empowering the individual. That's like how I see our job as clinicians.

It is not to give advice. It is not to tell them what's right or wrong.

It is about us empowering them to me to understand who they are in this world so they can live a healthy, happy, and sometimes holy life. like where it's like right and and we are the ones who just we're just uh vessels with tools that we pass along and it's up to the client to pick up the tools and utilize them like you can be you know you have EMDR DBT all these mindfulness all these things that we can you know we train ourselves to in order to become the best clinician out there.

The art of therapy I love that the art of therapy. So, is there any resources that you know or books or anything like that that you can leave the listener with um to maybe encourage them or to you know, especially for the Haitian culture or anything like that before we start uh saying goodbye?

Yeah, I think I think Victor Franco's Search for Meaning is always a good book. I would say it's a good book. Man for Meaning. Um, for me, my own journey has included therapy, right? Has included therapy to at least process my So, you know, Oh, so you've never been in therapy?

Yes, I have. I've been in therapy. I'm still uh obviously the mind, body, spirit, right? Mind, body, spirit. So, check in with yourself. What is what's your mind telling you? What's your body telling you? What's your spirit telling you? And how do you work on that?

What do you need to do? doesn't necessarily mean you need to read the Bible every day or the Torah or the Quran. Uh but read something to uplift you spiritually. You know, what you put in is going to be what you put out.

So, let's be mindful of what we're absorbing, especially in the community, in a culture we live in now with social media, uh everything. We have access to everything in these things we call telephones. And so, how are we guarding our eyes against some of those things?

um exercise obviously you know to keep your body well. I think for my community what you put in as far as food, you know, and so keeping ourselves healthy, you know, I lost a lot of family members during COVID, you know, and so it was um, you know, again, at risk, right?

You know, diabetes, high blood pressure, you know, um, and so, you know, when CO came, you know, yeah, the scariest thing that happened to me was when my mom caught CO, I was like, "Oh, shit." And then you caught it again. Like, but again, you know, she took care of her.

She's taking care of herself, so you know, she wasn't at risk. Um, and so for me, it it it is, you know, I I I do think part of it though, at least I try to find when I'm working with a client long enough and the distress is gone, there are couples doing well. you know, the individual's doing well, they're managed.

Like, all right, let's let's start having that purpose conversation, you know, like what are you here for? It's not just to go to work, come home, make money. It's like, okay, what's what's that calling? You know, what's what's the selfactualization look like for you?

Like what's selfactualization? Well, all right. Maso said this, you know, like Maso's hierarchy and he is actually teaching like psychology 101 to people, psycho education like because they don't know, they never received that information like we did that helped us to become better communicators.

See, therapy is not just I mean most of the people especially in community mental health we saw right away were it was crisis intervention crisis right? This is why people go to therapy. I'm having a crisis. So, if we were able to break the stigma in our cultures, in our world, and understand that it isn't just about mental illness, but it is about learning how to have mental wellness because guess what?

We are being attacked all over. It's not just the mind, it's brain health. It's right. It's like what the air we're breathing. Like, how are you using your five senses? That's what I'm hearing Austin say is like, how are you utilizing your five senses?

And we have a choice on how to utilize it. What do you put right in into our eyes, into our ears, into our mouth? Where are we going? You know, what are what are we choosing to do? And being mindful means to just take a moment and pause.

Yeah. You know, what type of human you want to be, right? And and trying to and again, those are the conversations, you know, and again, I have clients, you know, I've been seeing for months. I have a couple clients I've seen for years. like, okay, what type of human are you want to be?

Because you're dealing with all this baggage, this narrative of your life. And now you have to kind of rewrite that narrative. And so part of part of my job, no matter all the techniques, all the education is like, let's rewrite the narrative, you know, let's try to rewrite your story.

You know, I always say you can live to 100 years, right? You know, you're 30 years old, so you got 70 more chapters to write. I love that. what do you want those 70 chapters to look like? And so we're rewriting the narrative, so to speak.

And that's for clients with thought disorders to substance abuse to trauma, marriage is failing, you know, kids going into college, kids who are Haitian-American and they graduated engineering degree and mom and dad are upset with them. You know, it's like we're just going to have to I'm just quitting college and I'm going to go to New York and be a actress.

Absolutely. those conversations too. I've had those conversations. It's like it's like Yeah. It's like you're gonna you ultimately though I think at the end, you know, especially for my community, it's like you you have to be the author of your story and you know once you accept that mom and dad made the sacrifice and that was their story.

Yeah. And and and their story is influential in your story, but it shouldn't author your story. Exactly. Right. it should influence it. And so, yeah, mom and dad wants wants a doctor, but you don't want to be a doctor. You don't want to be a lawyer.

I would be a horrible lawyer. I'm extremely introverted. I'm extremely introverted. So, speaking of running a jury or a crowd of people are like, "No, can't do that." Um, and so, you know, you have to reauthor your story. You have to author it yourself.

And so if it starts off with the choices you make, yes, you have to communicate that effectively with compassion with some boundaries. But yes, boundaries is important because that's the collective culture of like, you know, we feel, you know, and we could keep going on and on and on of the differences and and and what we've helped others do.

And so, but I know that you have work, I have work, and we have to um say goodbye. So, before we say goodbye, where can someone find you if they want to work with you? Good question. It's a really good question. I think where uh Insight 180 counseling atgmail is my email address.

Okay. Insight180 counseling.com. Um Insight180 theapy.com is my website. Um you can Google me, you know, you'll find me. Um yeah. So you see clients in person and online, correct? And where is your um in-person office? In person offices in Bocar, too. Okay. I'll have all that in the show notes.

So in case anybody wants to work or or just contact you for speaking or whatever, I mean, I'm sure even though you don't want to be in front of a crowd, you have something to share to help others learn. So, I've learned I've learned how to like keep my hands dry, never been dry, you know, you got your techniques.

You got your techniques. But yeah, um I think online works. I mean, believe it or not, and the reason I was thinking about it, I was telling some of my colleagues, why do I have four international clients, right? Because the power of the internet, right?

Power of the internet. You know, I have clients in all over the world, believe it or not. And so, it's like Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that's because he's coaching. Yes. That's because Austin is coaching. Okay. Because I'm coaching, right? International clients are coaching.

Yeah. And so it's it's it's it's the internet will and it just marvels me, you know, that people like, I didn't know you existed. And I get and the sad part of I know you said this like we can close like when clients say that you're a black male Haitian therapist.

You're a unicorn. Actually, there's like a like a there's a I interviewed another um young Well, I don't know if he's Well, he's younger than me, so yeah, young man, male therapist, Markin. And I would love maybe in the future would love to just do something for each culture, like say a Haitian-American um and then have a panel where I moderate the panel and we just talk about that and then maybe a Portuguese Brazilian and then that's my dream.

I I kind of did it at the church that I used to go to. Okay. And uh I loved it because that that's just something that God put in my heart.

Like I just we need to break stigma not only in minorities but in also in churches and that to make people understand like just because you know you know a lot of people are like well depress you know they have no reason to be depressed and then it's like oh that means you're not praying enough and you don't have enough faith or you know oh Satan's got them.

And I'm like, "Oh my goodness, no, there's really people with brain illness." Like, it could be that their testosterone level is low and have you checked that instead of making these assumptions that the the the the 19-year-old boy, you know, maybe he's a sex addict and he's been, you know, and that's why he's depressed because now he's not a normal, you know, 19.

Think about it. There's so many different reasons for people to have But that's been the story, right? That's been the story for for 2,000 years, right? That's Oh, man. So, we can talk about this all day, but that's why we burn witches at the stake.

Like, he goes, you know, my husband says that Diana, like if you were back then, you'd be burned at the stake. I'm like, I'm not a witch. But he goes, but you think differently, you question things. And when you think differently and you question things and you're trying to help people see things in a different light, the the majority of people don't they like the status quo.

They like people fighting fighting amongst each other. They like people being blinded by things like yeah I can I can only understand the world in one way and that's my way. And if that if enough people speak that one way or believe that one way, then when we're, you know, standard deviations away from that way, it gets questioned.

And if I come with answers and you question those answers or you question my questions and you reject, we're living in that right now, right? Where you're rejecting other schools of thought, you're rejecting other areas of thought because we can only see the world in my way, right?

You know, you just have to deal with the anxiety, advocate for yourself, advocate for your community. Um, and pray fingers crossed and pray. Prayer. Let me tell you, pray. That's what I do. I mean, in in between client session before I came on with you, this is what keeps me sane and off drugs.

It's prayer. Prayer is very powerful. Very, very powerful. Whatever the higher power is, you know, it's like God, Allah, and the universe, mother nature, whatever it is, it's still very powerful. Yeah. Well, I pray in Jesus's name. So, on that note, thank you so much for coming on the show and I hope to see you at the next next work meeting.

Okay. All right. Absolutely listener. Thank you so much for hanging in there with us and don't forget to trust in the Lord. Guard your heart and renew your mind. Bye. And now for the disclaimer to make sure you understand that you are responsible for you.

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