From Postpartum Pain to Creative Power with Katana Malone – Award-Winning Actress, Author & CEO

Hello there, fearfully and wonderfully made human. It's me, Diana, licensed therapist, consultant, and your host of the Holistic Counselor podcast, brought to you by Through the Valley Therapy and Transformed Mind Consulting and Coaching. I always begin with this reminder, fearfully and wonderfully made.

Because whether you're thriving or barely holding it together, I want you to know that your life, your healing, and your story all matter deeply. You're not broken, you are becoming. And today, I'm bringing you a conversation that speaks to exactly that. I had the pleasure of reconnecting with today's guest after watching her powerful interview on the artist's loft and honestly it stirred something in me.

Not only because of the story she shared about the inspiration behind her children's book which touched my heart but also because I haven't seen her since my in between chapter in the South Florida film industry. Seeing her along with Richard, Alysia, and Frank reminded me of how deeply I missed that creative space.

Katana Malone is truly a force. She's an award-winning actress, screenwriter, filmmaker, educator, musician, mental health advocate, and mother of two. And she carries all of it with grace, grit, and purpose. She's the CEO of Melanated Scribes Publishing, a company she launched in 2020 to elevate stories through children's books, poetry, and film.

She also serves as the vice president of the West Indian Actors Database, an initiative designed to celebrate and cast authentically West Indian talent. But beyond the accolades, Katana is someone who's turned her personal pain into purpose. From trauma to postpartum challenges, from burnout to breakthrough, she's used creativity, education, and faith to build something healing, not just for herself, but for the communities she serves.

So whether you're a mom, an artist, a teacher, or someone navigating your own healing story, I know this conversation will offer your tool offer you tools, hope, and maybe even a few aha moments. Katana, thank you for being here. I'm so honored to share this space with you.

I'm honored you even invited me on. Thank you.

I seriously I have not seen her. We were just talking about that like eight years, right? I think it was eight years or maybe from a table me. I don't really know. I just remember we would just you know because it's a very small community South Florida film and and then you know life happens.

Yeah.

So

yeah. Yeah. So tell me what's going on. Let's start at the beginning though because for those who may not know who you are yet,

who [clears throat] are you and what has your healing journey look like through art, motherhood, and identity?

Um so like you said, my name is Katana Malone. I actually started acting um I would say almost 14 years ago. I started because Okay, so let's rewind. So I had my daughter in 2009 and um she came after a um a blo I had a blighted opam and uh for those who don't know blighted opam is basically when you have the pregnancy and the baby stops growing.

So, it the body thinks that you're still pregnant and it continues to, you know, show that there's elevated um it elevated hormones and all these other things, but then when you look at the ultrasound, there's actually no baby. So, I had to have a DNC um January of 2009.

I got married four days later, and then I had my daughter at the end of the year. And because of the surgery that occurred in January, I hemorrhaged when I had my daughter. And um [clears throat] delivery went smoothly. A lot of people don't understand like the delivery is the easy part.

You know, it's the removal of the placenta that then turns into let's hope this works out. And uh unfortunately I flatlined. Um and uh I hemorrhaged. And after several hours, you know, of seeing everyone cry before I went into surgery, my daughter was the only one who I feel like she knew I was coming back because she refused formula.

She wasn't taking anything. As soon as I got out of surgery, they're like, "You need to come nurse her." And um while I'm nursing her, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I almost I almost left." And it it kind of got me thinking after a couple months like, "What are the things that I've always wanted to do?"

I I always tell people like sometimes it takes a life a life-threatening uh situation to kind of kick things into gear and for me it was that delivery and after I had her I was like you know what I've always wanted to be an actress I spent my entire life moving all over the world and I never really got to fit in anywhere so every time I moved with my dad who was in the army I

would create a new persona so I was like you know what I might as well take that with me and and turn that into a career so I allowed that trauma to become art in the sense where I started acting and um you know I I was one of those kids growing up who when you asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up it was either an assassin or a doctor or a lawyer

or I wanted to fight in Mortal Kombat and like the only way that's going to happen is if I'm an actress so as well go that way.

Oh my goodness girl I had no idea.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? That's the thing I think I realized looking back in the film industry, we in the film industry have a lot and I noticed that like many of us have had a lot of trauma and being in that industry really get has you either express it in a very healthy way or it actually causes uh more trauma.

It depends on how you're using it honestly because I've seen some stuff in the I mean girl you know that like we both been in the South Florida film industry and I'm just like oh my goodness and my therapist brain. So Katana like honestly wow.

Wow. I just felt that like really really felt that like I'm trying to hold back the tears because people know on my podcast that I'm a very emotional person.

But you let him out. I'll let him out.

But the story but this is it. This is the point. This is why I started the podcast. This is, you know, I I have a story too of how I ended up in the film industry. I don't know if you know it, like I was a therapist and then the next thing you know, my son had a traumatic brain injury in 2012.

So, I had to um quit my job as a therapist to homeschool him and help him. He got better and I was about to go back to being a therapist and a girlfriend of mine who was a producer in New York said, "Hey, listen.

You had a hard time. Why don't you take some pictures? just I'll take some pictures of you and send them to agents

and then next thing you know they're like you have a personality that's so outgoing and you would be great in front of the camera cuz you h you're very photogenic and I'm just like all right I'll try it out and I and that's how I got into it and

I noticed when it comes to some of the the best actors you know when you think about um you know people like Robin Williams and Heath Ledger they were brilliant you know and the trauma was there and and I've even seen, you know, some interviews with Jim Carrey where, you know, they're told to push past this trauma, you know, and use it in film.

Even, you know, for me, like I I did a film, a movie called uh Marcus, and it was based on um [clears throat] it revolved around mental health. It was my first lead role and it was therapeutic for me because um my character has similar experiences that I had in real life. and I was able to use this art as a way to heal my own past, you know.

So, I I think one of the beauties of being in that film industry is being able to take that pain and turn it into something. I call it al, you know, you alchemize it. You you you do alchemy. You led to gold. And that's really your your emotions, your feelings, your past, your trauma, turning it into something golden.

So, what I've been doing, you know, over the past

almost two decades.

Oh my goodness. Yeah. I I you know, you're so right on and now that I'm on this side of of things, right? I'm a therapist. Um I do have creatives that come to me because I think they either, you know, stiff me out and they see that I understand them

and I Oh my goodness. I don't know if you hear my dog barking. Do you hear him barking? Okay, good. Good. I'm like, I told him not to be I told him to be quiet. Anyway, um some of these creatives that come to me, I do understand them because I was in it and the healing part and it's musicians, it's singers, it's actually oil painters, it's all different people with different backgrounds in the creative space.

And sometimes the thing is we in the creative space will use creativity and and try to help everybody else but we really don't do the inner work to truly truly heal. And sometimes it's you know it's hard. It's hard depending on the trauma and stuff like that.

I agree. I it's funny because I noticed that um [clears throat] so when I first started my social media I would get the you know the usual hitons and the DMs and things like that but then over time those DMs turned into you know people kind of seeing a post that I would make and they would just open up to me and say yeah you know I'm going through something similar or this this and that.

And I make it a habit to always respond to my my DMs. like I don't care what it is, I'm going to respond because you never know if there's someone that's sending you a message that just needed someone to talk to in that moment.

Yeah.

I I found that

what happens a lot of times when I'm giving advice and I tell people all the time, hey, I'm not a therapist. I've been in therapy, you know, like I have the experience on that side of the couch, but it's I I've noticed a lot of times when I give that advice, it's like I'm talking to myself.

I've come to realize that a lot of times something else is speaking through me and sometimes I needed the message as well. So I kind of just allow myself to be an outlet where where things come in, things go out and I try not to hold on too much to um to certain traumas whether they be mine or someone else's.

And I always tell people, you know, I had a friend of mine who came to me one day. He's like, "Hey, are you in the space to receive this?" And I I appreciate that because it's very it's very heartwarming to know that people will ask you first like, "Hey, before I dump this all on you, are you in the space to hold it?"

Because going through your own thing. So now whenever I'm in that space myself, I'll say, "Hey, are you in the space to hold what I'm about to say to you?" So I think that's important for us to know that, you know, it's okay to to to take things, but to also give yourself the grace to say, "Hey, right now I can't I can't hold that."

Yeah. To say no. Well, I can't because that's what they pay me for.

Well, yeah. I well actually I'm at a place in my career where I'm trying to pass the baton, right?

because there's younger therapists and coaches and like you know like we're we're in a space now that mental health is finally being destigmatized where we're actually able to talk it especially listen in the black and brown communities because our community I'm a car I'm half Caribbean and half my mom's from South America right but okay and and so we're going to talk about the West Indian you know to understand that more because those spaces have very different ways of thinking about mental health.

I've had to and this is one of the main reasons I started this podcast because it was to try to break the stigma of in my community, right? And also in the church community because it seemed like, you know, you you talk about like I'm feeling a certain way.

Well, you don't have enough faith or I'm

right like Okay, so let's talk about that a little bit because I I want to understand the whole melanated scribes, West Indian actors database. I'm like, wait, am I West Indian? I was trying to figure that out. I'm like, wait, how do you explain what that is?

Because I'm like, West Indian? I know that's got to be something in the Caribbean, but oh my goodness, am I one? Am I not? Am I Will you adopt me? I mean, what's up? Where are you from?

My dad's Puerto Rican and my mom's Colombian.

So, Puerto Rico is considered West Indian. So, what it is is, okay, so both of my parents are Jamaican. I was born in the US. So, every time I, you know, I watch a movie where the character is supposed to be from Jamaica.

It's like nails on a chalkboard for me when I hear an accent that's not accurate. You know what I mean? So, it it's And I've [clears throat] seen it happen with Puerto Rican. I've seen it happen with Dominicans. I've seen it happen with Haitian.

And if you're [clears throat] not from that country, you catch it.

Everyone else is like, "Oh, that's great. Yeah, he sounds Jamaic.

We all look alike."

And I'm like, "Yeah, but that's not

that's not how it sounds, you know." So,

uh I had some uh some gentlemen reach out to me um and they had started the company. They started West Indian Actors Database. Their whole idea, the whole idea of West Indian Actors Database is to pull people with authentic backgrounds to play these roles.

Wow. For me, for example, living in South Florida, most of the jobs that I've had, believe it or not,

pro Hispanic.

And I'm on sets and I don't know what's happening, you know? And it's like it it's crazy because when when I had agents, I became typ cast to that I looked a certain way. And I'm like, but I don't I don't speak Spanish, you know?

Like, and I get it. South Florida is heavily, you know, Hispanic, but it's also heavily Jamaican. It's also heavily Haitian. It's Puerto Rican. It's it's a melting pot like me.

But most of the roles I got didn't fit me, you know, like it was so funny. The first the first commercial I did that was uh Hispanic, it was um a Wendy's commercial.

Okay.

Sitting there and somebody was like everyone starts staring at me and I'm like happening and they're like the director asked you to

you know

I don't speak I don't speak Spanish. So, um, West India Actors Database basically is there to, you know, make sure that if they're casting for Jamaicans, they get people who actually speak patara or actually understand the culture so that

Oh, wow.

that it makes sense and it doesn't feel disrespectful to people that are actually from that culture. I love that because in in in the right kat like the field I'm in, we have I I literally go and I train other people how to be culturally competent in therapy because so many people will diagnose and I'm like you're not taking the say for the yeah the Jamaican culture into consideration.

This is why they have to stay stoic. It's not because they're you know or or etc etc. You know what I That's and that's and that's true when it when you think about the mental health aspect with Caribbean um and and to kind of divert from melanated um from West Indian actors database that what you said about you know being from a specific culture in Jamaica it's you know there's always a reason for a mental health issue or a mental health diagnosis that's not

labeled there it's something else it's

a dupy you know they say the person's probably possessed or you know, like it's it's something else other than what we know it to be um psychologically, you know, and um to divert from that, I actually started Melanated Scribes in 2020 during um during lockdown.

I was I I I found myself constantly just writing, writing, writing, writing.

Me too.

Yeah. Because I I couldn't get on set. I couldn't teaching and I'm like, you know what? I just need to somehow get all my thoughts out. And yes, I found that for me, I get into bouts of depression when I'm not creating. So it does I don't care if it's poem.

I don't care if it's a story. I don't care if it's me singing something or writing a song. I have to somehow be able to express myself

to keep from falling into that dark space because I I always have thoughts going on in my head and I always have to somehow get them out. And if they just sit there, then it's overwhelming for me.

It Oh my goodness. Okay.

So, Katana, we're going to talk about this big time because what you just expressed is what I hear from some of my clients that come in that, you know, you have the tools now how to express it, but I have creatives that come in that are so misunderstood and they're not, you know, they're not the business focused CEO kind of like, all right, we got to work the 40 hours a week and everything and they're so

misunderstood in their families and then they're told stories that make them feel even worse and and you see like they're never good enough in culture that that I don't even know how to say it because I love America.

I I I I love being here. My mom fought hard to come here for a reason. I get it. But even in our field there, you I bet you anything, Katana, you could sniff out who's there with their ego that's all about being rich and famous, right?

And those are the people I never wanted to work with back in the day. But those that are true creatives and artists, they don't care about rich or or fame being rich or fame. It happens. It happens to them and then other people will take that for their glory and their you know or you know there's some healthy people in our in that industry.

I mean

but but what you said about the creativity I girl did you write a poetry because I wrote two poetry books between 2020 and 2022. I I you know with poetry poetry for me it it kind of blends in with music like

I love that

and then it turns into a song.

Yeah.

Um but when it comes to um you know the the Caribbean side of it, it it's like you were saying about you know this country versus how it's weird because I I was born here. I'm the first generation born here and

me too.

There's this joke about Jamaicans having a whole bunch of jobs and I'm one of those people. I

think it's a Yeah.

You know, a whole bunch of things, you know. I'm a teacher. I have two kids. I I'm an actress. I write, you know, like how do you have the time? And I'm like, sometimes I don't, you know, just I have to somehow get these ideas out.

Or people will reach out to me and say, "Hey, we have a song you we want you to get on." I'm like, "Okay, sure."

Um and I'll do it because it's for me it's freeing you know so on the other hand I I've had to separate myself from people because of that what is your purpose so your purpose shouldn't be tied to your purpose shouldn't be money it should be tied to a belief or a passion or something else then the money will come but if your purpose you feel your purpose is to be rich or to have money then we're not going to align that's because that's not my purpose my purpose is to create.

My purpose is to teach. My purpose is to inspire.

Yes.

If money comes with those things, fantastic.

Right.

It hasn't yet. I mean, I I'm in a good space. I've been teaching for a decade.

Yeah.

It doesn't stop me from continuing to push out books and continuing to do music and continuing to write screenplays because this is what I love to do. And and you know, it's it's cool and it's drawn people. Like I have friends who people would be surprised that I know them, you know, and I'm like, "Yeah, but the relationship I have with them is more of a I'm a human being.

They're a human being. I'm not I'm not in this for richest fame. If it

Well, it's it's an ego. It's an ego. Okay. So, because I am a a therapist of faith, Katana, so I have to explain. And then I have clients who don't it's all very clinical, very science-based. They don't want the faith part." And I'm okay with that cuz I'm like, "Yeah, well, I'll be praying for you anyway."

But but it's like the ego and equals the flesh. All right? And then humility equals the spirit. Humility means surrendering to the purpose knowing you are a vessel. And whatever gift that is being given to you, why are you because I I feel how my I see the faith that I believe in it is about loving God and loving others.

Right.

Okay. It's not. And then I mean I'm a human being. So guess what? I will judge and then I'm like, "Oh Lord, I'm so sorry." You know, it's I'm always constantly apologizing for for sometimes being a jerk. But that's because I'm a human being and I don't want to excuse it either.

I want to be able to utilize everything that happens around me in order to help. Right? That's that's to me what a a healthy human being should be is able to search their own heart and understand why did I say yes to that production?

[snorts] Was it to tell the story?

Right. Or was it because I was just really low and I needed to stroke my ego and make myself feel better.

Right. And and I I feel like for me a lot of those lessons came um around the time I had my son, which is kind of where I say, "Okay, so my daughter is she'll be 16 in December." So that's when I around the time I started acting and she got me into you know what, life is short.

Do what you love to do. When I had my son um so I had my son at the end of 2023 and the year before I had three miscarriages, January, June, December. So when I found out I was pregnant with my son, I kind of was like, "Yeah, I'm pregnant."

You know, and unfortunately, I wasn't in a very healthy relationship at the time. So I kind of was like, you know what? You know, I was ready to go at that point, but I saw the pregnancy test and I'm like, "Yeah, this is happening."

And I wasn't excited yet because I had already lost so many the year before. And again, it's it was 15 14 years later and I'm like, "Okay, I'm I'm considered geriatric at this point." And

oh my gosh, I can't believe they put that nail on women after what 35, right?

Saw that when I went to my doctor. I was like, I'm what now? Okay. Okay, I'll I'll I'll take that. But then I had my son and um [clears throat] um and this is not to bash. I'm not trying to bash dad, but uh we weren't really in a good space.

And you know, I I had gotten to the point where I said, "You know what? I want to raise my kids in a home that's peaceful, um, in a space that's healthy. And if we're not willing to, you're not willing to get help for your anger or these things that you have going on, this is not going to work.

You know, if you don't want to get help, then I'm giving you a getaway, get out of jail free card. You you want to go, go, because I'm not going to fight it." And my son was born the 23rd. I got home the 26th.

Dad started moving out the 29th. I had an emergency C-section. So when dad left, I couldn't walk.

Oh my gosh.

Was not able to move. I cried every single day for almost two months. Um, and when I knew postpartum had hit me, it was his uh doctor's appointment. I took him to his doctor's appointment. My son was born. He was almost 10 pounds.

Big, very big boy. Um, and I took him to the follow-up appointment and he had lost two pounds. And it was I it was understood that because I had postpartum while I was nursing him, my body had shut off milk supply. So I was starving my son and had no idea that I was so upset that I didn't realize my body was like, "Hey, you're upset.

We can't give this this to your child."

Yeah. You were in survival mode. That's what we call it. Yeah. Unfortunately, um him losing all that weight was like a snap out of it for me. Okay,

I am now alone. I had been on maternity leave for several weeks when he was born. Um had no income. I was under the impression that I would be with somebody that was helping take care of anything. He had all his things out by the end of October.

November 1st came around. No rent money. I'm like freaking out. I'm like, "Okay, I need some, you know, help from this person, help from this person." And luckily I have, you know, some people that I could reach out to that were able to help me cover November.

But in that moment, I had realized, okay, I had given so much to this person. And why why had I given so much of myself to the point where I was left with nothing and now couldn't take care of my kids? And I had to do a lot of shadow work.

I I call it we call it shadow work where it's like okay I need to go back further to figure out why I'm the way I am now in a way that doesn't victimize myself but in a way that says what happened in your past that has you making the decisions you're making now and it was hard it was hard to look and say okay because this happened in childhood you know I experienced um sexual abuse

I experienced a lot of abuse when I was younger um verbal abuse physical abuse um I had been incarcerated a few times because I I was always defending my my mom and my sisters from a very abusive father and I had held on to that into the point where forgive forgive forgive forgive forgive but forget forget forget forget forget

and a lot of us get go through that

and it took me going through that experience of being left alone to realize that I had been too dependent on being seen that I wasn't seeing myself

wow Wow.

Yeah, it was rough. And then I started writing the books for my I was like, you know what? I need to leave for my kids. If something happens, like I went into that part of the depression where I was like, okay, if something happens to me, I need to be prepared for my kids.

And I started writing. I started um you know, designing clothes. I'm like, I have to do something so that I'm bringing in income. Like I'm not going to I can't afford to sit here in my in my sadness when I haveing on me, right?

Um, so I pushed through, but I still had to make sure to give myself time to also work on my mental health and work on, you know, the parts of me that they need that's healthy.

How did you how did you work on those parts? Like what did you do? I know you you mentioned shadow work. And for the audience that don't understand that, I I understand it because there's so much different kinds of work to do, you know, but to me, it always does start in childhood.

Um, especially when you come from a trauma background. And to me, it's wounds you had and and many of us do. And and it's and this is the thing. I have a lot of clients that come in and they're like, "Well, someone so and so had it worse or you heard the story."

Like, you have no idea what real trauma is because you're an American. Like, I mean, I heard it all. And and and I I realize like these woundings happen at certain times of life and sometimes we store them away because our brain wants to protect us.

Our brain wants to have us move forward because we need to move forward. So what do you mean by shadow work and what actually helped you get out of the funk?

So shadow work is basically looking at certain experiences that I had in the past and actually changing the way I saw those experiences. So for example um you know I dealt with some abuse and I had to think about what happened at that time how I reacted to it and then changed the way I saw myself as a result of it.

So I spent most of my life blaming myself for a lot of things that happened to me because other people in my life were blaming me for those things. So it shaped how I saw myself and later shaped how I became into my adulthood.

So, if I'm seeing that, okay, sexual abuse, this happened to me because some somebody said that it was my fault. I have to look and say, no, you were 12 years old. You didn't ask for that. It's kind of like looking in a mirror, but you're talking to a younger version of yourself.

Yes. That's internal family systems where where I talk about that a lot. IFS or actually, I mean, it's different different theories, different names, kind of the same work is reframing cognitive behavioral therapy, right? you take the narrative, take it out and challenge the thought going where is the truth in that and then putting it back in your brain with the new reframe.

And that's and that that's something I still do now because I tell people all the time I'm like I have no shame of being in therapy and now I kind of um so the shadow work was more spiritual for me and logical side was EMDR.

I started doing EMDR.

Yes, I've done EMDR too. Oh my gosh.

And that's what that does. EMDR helps you change the way you saw in a certain experience. So, you know, for those who don't know, it's it's post-traumatic stress. Like it it comes up sometimes here and there and I have to look at the experience and say, "Okay, what's happening right now that kind of reminds me of what happens back then and how [clears throat] can I change the way I see that experience?"

Like case in point again, my dad my dad was in the military and anybody who knows military is very strict about being on time. If you are on time, you're late. You need to be there 15 to 20 minutes early to be considered on time.

Yes. And and that with the film industry concept, too. I remember that. I'm like, I love that. It's gotten to a point now where that that little seed [clears throat]

I get anxiety now to something

or whenever I'm late to a doctor's appointment or to to work or if I have to turn back because my daughter forgot something at home. I find I'm getting anxious and I'm like okay why is the first time I did it I'm like why am I so anxious about this?

And I had to go further back in my childhood to say, "Oh, because you went to military school up until you were in sixth grade and you're very strict about time." So I had to change how I said, "You know what? Now it's like, you know what?

I am being deterred for a reason. I probably was not supposed to be on the road at this time. There might have been an accident waiting for me had I left the house when I thought I was supposed to leave the house. So I have to reframe."

Oh my gosh, I still need to do this, Katana. Like honest, I'm a therapist and I if my husband hears this, he's going to be like, "Oh, you need to hang out with Gadonna and and have her teach you this." I swear.

Work. It's work because there's still time for get like that, you know, but times where I have to conscious like my my son might make a little sound and I'm like, "Yeah, you're right." You know, I he's not saying anything, but I it's like a trigger for me to like, "Yeah, you're right.

Let me pause. Let me think."

My daughter almost 16. I started her in therapy when I realized there was certain things she didn't want to talk to me about. And that's the difference between me and my past and my my culture. They're like, "Oh, everything that happens in the house has to stay in the house."

You know, don't go out in the street. No. With my daughter, when I realized she didn't want to talk to me about something, I said, "Do you want someone to talk to?"

Oh, I love that.

Don't want you to get to my age.

Feel like you can't speak about.

It's not only that. It's not only like holding in the anxiety, but what it does to your body. People forget that we're a biology, a psychology, and a theology. And anyone that has heard from episode one to this episode, I think this is number 80.

Uh it is understanding like yeah, practicing the pause because that's what I heard. You you you're teaching yourself, rewiring your brain to practice the pause to a point of like what's happening and oh, I'm not there anymore. I'm here. What are the tools that I learned?

And then picking them up and actually using them. You're also breaking stigma. I love that. and breaking intergenerational trauma patterns. So that's a lot of different work that you continue. It's a continuation of having to do to me. It's also like your sanctification for those that are Christians that to understand you're being sanctified every day.

It's not like oh Jesus is in my heart now I'm perfect. Now I'm good and I don't need to do any other work. No. So I want to understand now like your book mommy's garden right and also the one about the rainbow.

So I I the first book that I wrote was called um mommy's magic um and where you know my daughter thought my daughter thought I was magic because I was big into um you know incense and and manifesting through like affirmations. like I when she was young, I would always like have her do manifestations or it was like I am beautiful, I am bold, I and and she saw it magically.

Um, Mommy's Garden, I wrote that for my mom. So, each book is written, you know, with someone in mind. And my mom was the person who kind of um she taught me how to plant seeds of hope um and be okay pulling the weeds out because my thing was I was always I always grew up thinking that I didn't want to hurt other people's feelings and I didn't want to, you know, be looked at in the wrong way.

I didn't want people to be mad at me. I didn't want people to dislike me because I already felt like that at home like and not mom but you know from the the first man in my life you know I wanted that acceptance.

So I grew up and started to seek that acceptance elsewhere. So mommy's garden kind of makes me feel okay with pulling the weeds because I I'm I'm a big person. I don't want to kill anything but the weeds got to go, you know, and and unfortunately they're going to kill your plants. the things that you actually want to grow, things that you that they either bring beauty or that bring sustenance or, you know, like I have a garden in my front yard.

I'm growing potatoes and ginger and tomatoes and all. Oh,

you are really Jamaican.

You know what I mean?

I'm really Caribbean. I shouldn't just say Jamaican because I in my neighborhood, the Dominican everybody. I even have my herb garden in the I mean, look at my background. These are all real.

It's okay. And I and I'm and I feel like with these plants, I'm one of those people who believes like you talk to your plants and you know, they grow based on the things you say to them.

Wow. Oh, look how happy mine are.

So, I look at that like when I first started growing growing my garden, I used to actually put like um what they represented. So, for example, I would say basil on a little stick. I would say basil on the front and hope on the back.

Oh my goodness.

I say um time on the front and wealth on the back. Like I'm watering these things and and I want them to grow in my life as well as to grow in in a pot. you know, longest garden kind of symbolizes the different ways we can use, you know,

herbs and and uh flowers. Sometimes we just need the beauty. You know, it might not serve a purpose other than to be nice to look at.

It kind of symbolizes different areas of my life where potatoes, for example, when you grow potatoes, it's deep within the soil. And that's like growth. That's like evolving spiritually and and mentally. It sometimes you got to be in the dark. You got you got to dig yourself out from the very bottom.

Oh wow.

Okay. You know, so that's kind of what Mommy's Garden symbolizes for me. And the Rainbow Baby one, it was tough. Um

yeah,

this one was I actually wrote it for my daughter. Um because she she was there when I lost the three when I had those three miscarriages in 2022. So she was really excited and she was she was, you know, oh, I'm going to have a sister.

I'm going to do her hair. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. And she kind of felt like, is it me why the baby didn't come?

Oh goodness.

I wrote the book to kind of help, you know, parents whose child kind of holds on to that sadness.

And in the book, you know, my daughter is praying to the next baby like, "Hey, I don't know what you're going to be, but I'm going to do this with you and I'm going to do that with you. if you decide to come, these are the things I'll do with you and these are the ways that I'll love you and these these are the things that I'll teach you.

And you know, it starts off with the loss. It's it then it goes into, you know, the sadness that the child feels and and the blame that they put on themselves because believe it or not, some people don't realize how much a loss like that can affect their children.

Yes. It's grief. It's grief.

They grieve too.

Yes. Everybody grieavves. I mean, in the f I bet the grandparent I mean I could imagine. Oh my gosh.

But the end at the end you see that you know mom tells her like it's been this amount of time now because I I waited to tell tell my kid like I didn't want to tell her too soon and then lose it and then she feel that again.

At the end of the book my son is born and my daughter is like you know now I know what love looks like because she gets on her nerves. He's almost two now. He gets on

Oh

he loves this boy. Like you can't anyone don't raise your voice at him. Don't don't say anything like negative. When she gets up, she walks in the room, the two of them have these bright smiles. They're like, "Hi, hi." And it's like it's it's love there.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

For me.

And um Yeah. It's it's

Wow.

It was therapeutic.

Yeah.

I feel like it can help someone else as well.

Oh, no. For sure. Because this is what storytelling is about. Okay. Like what we're talking about right now. Sometimes I have uh some of my clients like they're like, "I'm not a writer." I'm like, I know, but let's just I'll send you some questions because your story is just as powerful as my story and and Katana's story.

And and the thing is, I think that's why we're so we are interconnected because like a movie is not going to make someone feel the same, you know, it's not going to reach the same audience, but your story can help.

It just reminds and I'm just going to say this part of the Bible which it reminds me when Jesus was talking to Simon Peter and I think it's in the book of Luke where he's like hey listen Satan asked to have you for a little while but when he's done with you return and strengthen your brothers.

I'm going to put I'm going to find the verse and put it in the show notes so people would understand like no we're meant to be in community. We're meant to love one another and to be together. I mean, we were in tribes way, way, way before the industrial revolution.

Like, think about this. Around the world, right? And so, to me, we're supposed to help one another and and love one another and not be against each other. And I mean, so, how old's your daughter now?

That'll be 16 in December.

Oh, man. See, my baby's 26. So, I I have I have five well, six grandchildren now. And I'm just like when I'm seeing what's going on cuz I stopped working with teenagers. I would say in 2022 I stopped because that was mostly my career was working with adolescents in alternative high schools.

And so to me now how like as a mom right now and now you have a 2-year-old

and a 16-year-old. So I think you're at the end of Gen Z along with a Gen Alpha.

Yeah. And you're a second grade teacher, correct?

I actually fourth grade now. So I

fourth Miha.

So I started teaching as a way to um sustain. I I was a substitute teacher. So anyone who's in the

too,

you know that there's days you're not on set. So you money,

supplement your money and have fun and love on people.

Exactly. I I I subbed when I wasn't on set and then I was on set when I was on set. You know,

I can't believe we have this much in common and we didn't really hang out even more. I'm like, "All right, but all right, God, you have us now." All right.

To happen this way because now we have so much more to talk about.

I know.

So, I I I then my mom's a teacher. My mom's been teaching for almost 30 years. And

Oh, wow.

What I did was I started off at my daughter's school and I was a grade ahead of her every year she was in school. So, I purposely wanted to make sure that I had the tools she needed for the next grade. Wow.

When she was in second, I taught third. When she was in third, I taught fourth. And I did that all the way up until she was in ninth grade. So, I was with her at her high school. And she wanted me to come.

Like, I asked her. She's at that age. Let me ask you.

Okay.

Grade came around. She was like, "Yeah, no. We're done.

We're done." Back in I'm now teaching um fourth grade gifted.

Oh.

Kids. But in in that realm, I have students with disabilities. I have autistic students. I have, you know, one of my son's oldest brothers is non-verbal autistic. So, I've had experience working with children in all those spaces. And the one thing that is important to me is SEAL, which we call um social emotional learning.

Yeah.

I have a little carpet in my room if they want to go meditate, listen to music, you know, have your little space, you know, because people don't realize that children and I I know because I was that child, you know, for me, school was an escape.

I didn't want to be at home. Me too. I tell people like Broward County school. I was Broward County School. I mean I'm in New York too. Are where I don't want to ask what school because I don't want nobody to come after you stalk [clears throat] you or anything like that.

But are you in Broward Dade or Palm Beach?

Broward.

Okay. That's why you need to let me know.

It's Broward County School. Okay. But Broward County schools, it's a it's a hard it's a hard place because I subbed once. I I I subbed in private schools and then I tried to sub in the Broward County public school, but I wanted to do therapy because some of these kids in the general population, they needed more than they were getting.

And I felt so bad for the I actually have a lot of teachers that are

Yeah.

teachers, nurses, other therapists as I'm their therapists, accountants. Uh it's it's a very wide variety but a lot of teachers because it's a stressful job especially after 2020.

Yep. And that's when I actually I went from so I started as a day-to-day sub then I became an interim sub then I became a teacher. I actually became a teacher during COVID because of um my job as an intram teacher because when we went on lockdown the teacher that I was taking over for she was like oh well I'm on maternity leave.

I could just work from home now. you know, and I was like, "Oh, no." Which put me out of jobs. So, had the tools to be certified. I just hadn't wanted to, you know, admit to that. I'm an Aquarius. I like to be able to bounce around, you know?

So, to be to be now tied down to a job for the first time in in over a decade was like, "Okay, I'll do it." You know,

that's a hard thing for us creatives.

It is.

I know. It is for me, too. And I'm

don't understand that if you're not

signed to like an amazing agency, and this is no shade to any of my agents, but if you're not in the right place and you're not in the right um you know, you don't have the right opportunities, you got to work a nineto-ive, you know, you have to be able to and I look, it's me being able to invest in myself.

Like I use some of that that funding to start my company. I use some of that funding to publish my books. I use some of that funding to pay when people order. See, people don't understand when you do certain certain jobs. You got to pay for the product before the customer gets it.

So, they don't understand that it takes a lot of investing before you can actually start to make money. So, I I look at it now like, okay, this is a way for me to take care of my kids. It is a way for me to to reach kids, you know, and it is a way for me to um invest in myself.

So, it I I love teaching because I tell people all the time, I'm like, I'd rather be around kids nowadays than most adults. You know, when you when you look online and you see all that separation, like you were saying, it's exhausting, you know, and I I I found myself having arguments with people who send me DMs that are like, "Oh, women are this and I'm like, I don't want to see that.

I don't believe in that. I don't I don't vibrate on that level. I don't I don't like that you versus him versus that." We're all

I look at us like

there's two two ways. Like especially when it comes to religion, I look at it like different ladders going to the same place. They're all going up. They're going up or they're going down. It's a ladder. Whatever ladder you choose to climb, that's you.

Same thing with us being like tentacles of a giant octopus.

They're all connected. That giant octopus is the omnipotence. Whatever you believe in, and we're just all the tentacles still connected somehow. You might this in your life. I might be doing that, but there's still that connection that ties us together.

So, I have to look at people like you're you came into my life at a certain point where I needed a lesson that you were supposed to teach me or I needed to help teach you something or I needed to see myself through your eyes or you needed to see yourself through my eyes.

Like you and I having this conversation now, we're realizing how much we had in common. You know what I mean? So, maybe I only did that interview so that you and I could have this conversation. Like everything serves a purpose. Like I actually had that tattooed on me.

Like the Ecclesiastes, there's always a time and a season and like I I I believe that everything has a purpose. Every everything happens for a reason and I all for that. Whatever.

Yeah.

Well, yeah. Katan, like seriously, I'm just thinking about like there's been a long like um casting, not casting networks, Front Runner Casting sent an email the other day and said, "Hey, listen. We're getting on a new whatever. If you're still wanting to be part of it, redo your P.

You have to redo your whole um profile, right? I'm sure you know that because you're still in it, right?

I don't do I don't do it as much because I'm now at a space where I feel like I want to tell my own stories. I don't the typ casting. I don't want to be typ cast. I don't want to keep telling the same story over again.

I feel like we need more uplifting stories.

Yes.

But realistic stories like

Yes. want to see. We don't have to be princesses, but we also don't have to struggle 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Like, I I feel like if we're continuing to ingrain that in our minds, and we're continuing to see it in movies and TV and videos, I want to see somebody that's actually successful without having to struggle.

I want to see someone who's a mom and a single mom, but she's enjoying it. I want to see a single dad that can handle a daughter without making it seem like, oh, this is the most stressful thing for him.

Single fathers that are amazing. Show that.

I love that.

Like I I want to see positive stories like and if there's a little negativity, it's real life.

But I it doesn't have to be struggle struggle struggle struggle struggle hate fight. Like I don't it doesn't

Right. Well, I I think that's why you're or we I mean like honestly I I don't want to debate. I don't want to hurt anybody. I'm trying to bring I mean back in the day I had a company called Rahab Productions and I was wanting that's what I want.

But I know what happened. I went ahead of God. Like I was so Martha and people will understand like what Martha and Mary you know Mary was at the feet of Jesus. Martha was the one that was just like, "Hey," complaining like, "Hey, do you see her, Jesus?

She's sitting there doing nothing while I'm probably cooking and cleaning and doing everything for everybody else." And it it was just realized now I look back and I'm like, "Okay."

And and you know what the beauty is, Katana, that I'm still a therapist, but now I have this creative space, you know, and I'm very very grateful for this space. this is why and I'm and I'm also very protective of it because people are like hey I would love to sponsor or you know or or how much money are you making or and I'm just like [snorts] [sighs] this is not about the money

right

this is about the healing and being used as a vessel to help others because this your story and us talking who knows who's going to listen and feel heard understood loved who knows who's going to take your book and go check it out.

Hopefully, you're going to tell us where we're going to find it and and and you know what I mean and pick it up and read it to their child or to themselves and say, "Oh, I'm not alone." Who

and that's the reasons why I I wrote another book called His Flowers.

Um and it's kind of like a a you know, it's a poetry book, but it's like, you know, we see you when you come from work and first thing you do is jump in the shower because you need time to decompress. It's a book for men because I feel like,

you know, I I've been seeing so many suicides from men and it's like you you need they need to know we love you. We see you. We we Yeah.

flowers while you're alive.

Yeah. And we're not against you.

We're not against you. So, it's like a it's like a it's a poetry book to say, "Hey, we see you. Here are your flowers."

Um same thing with the um nonprofits that I I coincide with. So, there's one called Reach Within, which is in Grenada. I I haven't personally met them, but a friend of mine, um, Brandon McLaren, he's like an amazing actor. Um, he supports them.

So, I saw him posting and I'm like, what is it? What are they about? And I found out that it's mental health and children in Grenada. And I'm like, oh, I want to help. I want to be I want to support somehow. So, my books, I actually will donate 10% of proceeds to reach within.

Then there's another one that I work with called Herbkind where I literally, you know, when I'm free, I need to come go back more. But on Wednesdays, I go in a detention center and I sit with a group of boys for an hour.

It's myself and like five or six other people and it's volunteer and you just you just talk to them. They just need people to talk to, you know, and and they sometimes they want to tell you what their dreams are. Sometimes they just want to tell you what they did over the weekend.

And I've spent time in a juvenile detention center, so I know how helpful that would have been for me had I had someone come in and talk to me and say, "Hey, you know, you are still loved."

At 14, that would have completely changed my trajectory going forward.

So, I I find that it's necessary for me to not only get my hands involved, like personally be there and see somebody to help.

Well, it's healing to volunteer. It's healing. It's a it's it's a situation where you're able to help another person as long as you do your own work because I do know people that will go into spaces like that and they don't deal with their own stuff.

They're

the last couple weeks like I I tell them whenever I I miss time I come in and they're like, "Hey, Miss, you know, Miss Katana, where'd you go?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I was dealing with something personally and I didn't want to give that to you.

I didn't want have that energy. So, I had to step away until I was in a good space to be able to, you know, hear you and help you if I can't

I love that.

I can't, you know, be here for you.

Good for you.

It's it's a beautiful experience. Like, Ver kind is like one of the best things I've come across and I love it because there's, you know, the girls detention centers, the boys detention centers, and just to be able to have people come and care about them is is what they need.

Yeah. That's what I loved working at the alternative high schools because those are the kids that were kicked out of the regular public schools that and it was in Broward County. Um, most of the alternative high schools that I worked in and those are the kids that I that needed love the most, right?

Are the ones that are are probably the angriest are the ones who need understanding, love, and acceptance the most. But anyway, um, listen, Katana, I know I could probably sit here and talk to you for another what, five hours. I seriously we have so much to catch up on and everything but I know I want to be respectful of your time and also of the audience that's listening.

So is there any final words you would like to tell our the audience?

Um same thing that something similar that I told um artist lost. Um one is to to it's okay to give yourself grace first and foremost. I think it's important that people give themselves grace in the sense of yes, you might have made some choices that were not healthy.

Um, or you might have you might even look at yourself in a negative way based on certain experiences, but you have to give yourself grace to say that okay, I'm human and what can I learn from this? Um, two, therapy is okay. I think a lot of people are so against it because of, you know, upbringing or cultural stigma or whatever the case is, but it is okay to to have therapy.

And and I'm I I saw this idea in in I think it was London where the barber shop had licensed therapists while men were getting their hair done. And I'm like, that is an amazing idea. I if I could do that here in the States, I would do that.

I think it's an amazing idea. Just put someone there in in a normal space where men usually talk. you know, so give them that licensed therapy as well. Um, three, um, breathe. Sometimes it's okay to take a breath. We're so in this hustle culture that I think people forget that it's okay to rest.

Um, like

it's not lazy. It's not lazy.

I've been working on this novel for months and I'm literally on page two. But I take time to spend with my kids. I take time to spend with my mom and my sisters. And it's okay. It's okay to take a breath. It's okay to live because at the end of it when you can say, "Yeah, I got 20 bucks."

How is your how's your heart? How is your health? How are are you able to walk across the street without losing your breath? Because, you know, you you just you need to be able to get up and and move, get up and do with family and also sit down and rest,

to always be hustling. Um, and last, I would say create however you feel to create. Um, you don't have to make the same type of stuff everyone else is making.

That's right.

To play the same roles that people are constantly telling you or the roles that you fit. No. If you say, "Yeah, I've been a comedian for five years. Now I want to go do something serious." Go do that something serious. Robin Williams did it.

Jim Carrey did it. Like, we see all these comedians.

I just saw a commercial with Keanu Reeves.

Yes.

And he's playing an angel or something.

I loved it. I was like, "Yes, I love that." You know, you were just John Wick and he looks like John Wick with wings. you know,

with little bitty wings.

A little I love that. I love when people Reeves is like one of my favorite. Like I love him.

Yeah. So humble

and I I I like to see people just, you know, just do what feels right. You know, if it doesn't feel right in your spirit, don't do it. It doesn't how much they're offering you. It doesn't matter how much visibility you feel like you're going to get from it.

Do what makes you feel good, not just gonna make you money. Do what makes you feel good and and everything will flow from there. And forgive. I I have that forgive. You gota you got to learn to forgive because that was one of the things that I had to learn.

Um that was one of the hardest lessons for me because we can allow our anger to overwhelm us and it can stifle your creativity. You've got to learn to forgive. Let go. Don't you don't have to forget, but you got to let that stuff off of you.

Give it give it to something else and and

yeah, flourish. I mean, I mean, you think about forgiveness. It's like Jesus's last words on the cross. Father, forgive them for they don't know what they're doing. You know, and so, wow, that that's a great way to end this conversation. Where can they find you if they want to either figure out what this West Indian, you know, if there's someone that's an actor wants to get on that and they're like, "West India, I want to be on that datab.

I mean, you do so or tutoring."

Yeah.

I mean, like, hello. But anyway,

awesome. Yeah.

Okay.

Rest. Um, you can find me. My website is kasanaone.com. It pretty much has links to everything else from there. Uh social media, Katana Malone. Um the little symbol Katana Malone. That's um Instagram, Tik Tok, Facebook, um X, and YouTube. All Katana Malone.

IMDb.

IMDb. Yes,

I have one too still, I guess. I think I mean it's like there.

It's so funny. I I Google myself like and it's not it's not a copiness. It's just like you'd be surprised what shows up when you Google yourself. So I'm like I myself like every three three to six months and I'm like okay okay everything's good.

So make sure it's not a mug shot. No call that I don't Yeah. So

it's um if you if you go into Amazon and you just type in Katana Malone, it will bring up all of my books.

Okay. Wonderful.

Yeah. And

I think I'm gonna have to get them to read them to my grandkids.

They're great. Like I I had a friend with like um 20 copies and she kind of just gives them out at birthdays and I'm like, "Okay, I love that." You know,

that is so cool. That's great. All right. I mean, that's wonderful. And hopefully I'll get to see you after I press pause and and and talk to you for a few more minutes after this. Um and maybe somehow someway figure out how we can connect and collaborate on other things because I had no idea we had this much in common.

All right. All right. Listener, thank you. If you uh stayed with us to the end, thank you so much for listening and I hope you got some nuggets out of this. And remember to trust in the Lord, guard your heart, and renew your mind.

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